Secret Letters and files

by simplesally 15 Replies latest jw friends

  • simplesally
    simplesally

    It still bothers me very much that they are allowed to keep files on us and that we have no right to see the contents. They can choose to look at them or destroy them, whatever THEY wish, but our wishes about a file with our name on it, about our lives is not unavailable.

    When you change halls a letter is written about you to the next group of Men in Black. You are not allowed to read it before it is sent and unless you really know the elder who wrote it, you probably won't know what it said at all. I had one elder, my good friends husband tell me NO I couldn't know but it was all good, but its confidential. Another body had such a nice letter written and the elder who wrote it did read it to me. However, one body of elders wrote a "not so nice" letter about me when I changed halls since I didn't agree with them about several things and decided I was changing halls. I never found out what they said but cleared it up with the new hall who understood what I was going through and what my disgruntles were about. They also, frankly, agreed with me.

    I think that secrecy should not be part of the Borganization. You should know exactly what is said about you, not behind your back stuff!!

  • Shutterbug
    Shutterbug

    Sally, you may have described grounds for a lawsuite. Not sure about a religious organazation but an employer, under law, must provide the files for you to read if you wish.

  • glitter
    glitter

    I might try and get any info they've got about me about me using the data protection act.

    But do you think it'd put a blot on my family's record with the JWs if I do? - my mum's inactive but still in and I don't want to create any problems for her.

    http://www.dataprotection.gov.uk/

    http://www.mtcp.co.uk/campaigns/dataprotection.htm

  • nancee park
    nancee park

    Judicial Committee files are kept even after your death at Bethel but local elders are supposed to destroy their local copies after seven years, which some do and others do not. The letters of recommendation that get passed to the next kingdom hall's elders often contain many cruel falsifications, but citizens of the United States are not usually allowed to see either the Judicial Committees file records or the letters-of-recommendation about themselves with this based on the separation of church-and-state.

    Those in the European Union it would appear are allowed by EU law to see the documents and I think this may hold true also for Canadian Jehovah's Witnesses. However the Watchtower Society has its "creative" ways of getting around such laws. For example they can advise elders to read a letter or file then destroy it locally although a copy is kept in the U.S. at the Bethel headquarters and the elders in your new kingdom hall simply keep in their minds or "private" notes whatever was said in the orginal documents.

    Another clever way to backstab members is for them to say nothing specific about you but to say something like "this brother would greatly benefit from the disciplining applied to Job" or even less specifically "Proverbs ## : ## comes to mind when thinking of this sister." Also they can "confidentially" telephone what they think of you to the next kingdom hall etc.

    If you find yourself on the "outs" with the elders in one kingdom hall what may happen is this. They can act so-so to lukewarm nice to you while you are at their kingdom hall, then send a letter recommending you be put under severe discipline at the next hall which gets carried out there for no reason that you can figure out. That next hall's elders may observe or spy on you about six months then start working to "refine" you.

    They may not even know whatever it is that the previous elders disliked about you but feel "honor-bound" to act in line with the recommmendations. You will be expected to take the "tough love" treatment the whole time until you move to still another kingdom hall. There, if you do not talk "disloyally" about how the previous hall's elders "mistreated" you or other people but you do pioneer constantly and attend all the meetings, then they might just start giving you a few priveleges.

    I cannot say this is done at everyone of the 90,000 or so congregations earthwide, but I can and do say it is done at those that I know of in the United States. It may not hold true for all U.S. congregations but believe me it holds true for all too many. There are good elders but there are also snakes who act nice to your face and gleefully stab you in the back just as Mother Bethel pleases and allows.

    Maybe five years ago at a Ministerial Training School in the U.S. elders were told to start administering their own discipline at their own kingdom halls while a person attended there instead of passing along the recommendation that they undergo fire from the next body of elders. This is what was taught "officially" but "unofficially" the word was "you can ignore what was taught because it was just one of those things that was taught for appearances to protect the Governing Body and its staff up in Bethel in Brooklyn."

    Yes, there's too much of this that goes on. Hope this helps.

  • SumnerSloan
    SumnerSloan

    I've been wondering about this matter myself. Are there any elders/former elders posting here who might enlighten me as to just what it is that is contained in those publisher records - especially what is passed on when one transfers to a different congregation? If I am a witness in "good standing" who chooses to switch congregations for personal reasons - possibly due to a personality clash or difference of opinion with one or more of the elders in the former congregation - is this likely to be mentioned to the new elders? Is the letter they write to the new congregation simply one of introduction, stating, yes, he/she is a witness in good standing and here is his/her publisher card - or does it get into personality, perceived weaknesses or areas in need of improvement ... Just how much do these new elders know about me?

    It certainly wouldn't be fair to carry with me throughout eternity the baggage and labels placed on me by some biased, imperfect individual who fancies himself a flawless judge of the human character. Just what is in those records???

  • Thirdson
    Thirdson

    I was an elder for a short while and have limited experience of the "goings'on" between elder bodies. I do know from experience (being a baptized JW for 22 years) that on numerous occasions bothers moved congregations and were never re-appointed to the position they held previously. I think the move was used as an opportunity to punish some and elders refused to recommend the brother.

    I had the publisher record cards for about 9 months and there was nothing with them that contained notes or secret records about congregation members. I do remember the PO giving me the record cards for a sister who had moved to our area. With the cards was a letter from her previous cong's elders detailing how much trouble she had caused, how she had been DF'd and reproved previously. I felt she deserved a clean slate and not knowing what to do with the letter, I destroyed it. I don't believe it was passed around the other elders but I am sure the PO would have recalled it in conversations.

    I found being an elder was a real eye-opener. I was brought up to believe that elders were special, Godly and caring men. I always felt I was never good enough to be an elder but after I was appointed and, later quit, I felt I was too good to be the JW overseer and quit in disgust and what was going on and what I observed. Being an elder led to my eventual realization and I quit totally two years later.

    I often wonder what the back-stabing, rat-bags said about me when I moved congregation.

    Thirdson

  • Golden Girl
    Golden Girl

    I wrote the "Society" and requested a copy of my disassociation letter I sent to them a long time ago. They sent me a letter of refusal! Said it was 'Confidential" material.

    I know one of the eders where my Mother In law lives got a copy. She asked him if it was OK to associate with me and he got a copy of my letter and told her it was OK....Now this was quite a bit back that she was told this! I just requested a copy a few months ago!

    You would think if the requst for a copy was notorized it would be OK..Nope.

    Too much incriminting evidence against someone in that letter!

    I wish I had kept a copy!

    Golden Girl.....

  • SYN
    SYN

    What about the FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT???

  • abbagail
    abbagail

    Hubba Hubba! Who would have known? Thanks nancee park for that detailed info. And Thirdson, your first-hand experiences... I'm saving this info.

    So, is this how it would work? I've been away soooo long, way past the seven year mark. So the former (DF'ing) cong would have destroyed the JC notes or whatever. Let's say I moved and wanted to go to the KHall, and told them I had been DF'd years ago. Would they then call Bethel to get the scoop? Or would they call the former cong and pick their brains?

    Has anyone ever gone back to a new KHall and just pretended like they were "in good standing" (i.e., never mentioned the DF'ing)? I know I know, get struck dead by lightning for that. Just wondered if anybody ever tried it, and if they did, what happened? ... ;)

    Grits

  • mommy1
    mommy1

    I have been out almost twenty years and my Jw brother told me just recently the local elders looked up my file. It was still at the local kingdumb hall. With my big sins, confessions and all of a teenager. They wanted to get in contact with me now that I am past the "bloom of youth " stage I wouldn't be doing the stuff I got disfellowshipped for and if I did it would be with hubby.

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