Elders, disfellowshipping, & baseball umpires

by sir82 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • sir82
    sir82

    OK bear with me for second on this one....

    I was just reading the other day about "Pitchf/x", a type of technology that can accurately track whether a pitch in baseball is a ball or a strike.

    A couple of analysts went over 6 years of baseball data.

    It turns out that umpires are wrong about balls & strikes about 14% of the time. What they call a "ball" is really a "strike" about 13% of the time, and what they call a "strike" is really a "ball" about 15% of the time. Here is the article.

    That's at the major league level.

    Umpires have to work their way up to the major leagues, just as players do. By the time an umpire gets to the major leagues, he's umpired in hundreds or thousands of games, and has made 10's or 100;s of thousands of ball/strike calls.

    The definition of a "ball" or "strike" is quite simple. Major league umpires are the best of the best, with years or decades of experience.

    And they still get it wrong 14% of the time.

    Jehovah's Witness elders have at most a few hours training over the course of their lifetime on "handling judicial cases". They get 40 or 50 pages of "training material" in their elder book. They will sit on anywhere from 0 to maybe a dozen judicial committees in any given year. The most experienced might sit on a hundred or so over the period of his elder-career.

    And they are supposed to judge - not whether a ball passes between points A, B, C, and D - no, they are to judge the "sincerity" of someone's repentance - is it "commensurate with the level of wrongdoing". And they base that judgement on a few minutes of tearful, emotionally charged answers to probing questions by a fearful "wrongdoer".

    How often do they get it wrong?

    30 or so years ago, the WT published that about 40,000 per year were being disfellowshipped in congregations annually.

    There are more than twice as many JWs now as then, It seems reasonable to conclude that there are at least 100,000 DF'ed per year now.

    Based on my observations, most judicial cases do not end up in a DF. So there are quite likely several hundred thousand JW judicial cases per year.

    How often do the elders get it wrong?

    If they were as polished, professional, and well-trained as MLB umpires, there would be 10's of thousands of wrongful DFings each year, hundreds of thousands over the past decade.

    If they were as well-trained as MLB umpires. Not if they were, say, bumbling uneducated, callous, and uncaring morons who view themselves as wild-west sheriffs cleaning up God's town.

    Even for the elders who do sincerely try to "get it right" - how often do they get it wrong?

    Just something for lurkers, apologists, etc. who read articles like "Why Disfellowshipping is a Loving Provision" to think about.

  • Magnum
    Magnum

    Very thought-provoking.

    And they are supposed to judge - not whether a ball passes between points A, B, C, and D - no, they are to judge the "sincerity" of someone's repentance - is it "commensurate with the level of wrongdoing". And they base that judgement on a few minutes of tearful, emotionally charged answers to probing questions by a fearful "wrongdoer".

    And compare the consequences. Whether a ball or strike is wrongly called probably won't make that much of a difference unless it's bases loaded full count in the world series. Also, over the years it probably averages out to about zero wrong calls because players probably get as many wrong calls for them as they do against them. However, a wrong DFing can be life-altering, and there is no averaging out effect.

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    A JW friend recently told me that the Elders said JC decisions are never wrong. They are directed by Holy Spirit.

    DUH! Then why does the "spirit directed GB" get doctrine wrong that later requires adjustments of New Light? When that happens, they excuse it because they are "imperfect men who make mistakes".

    Some of these people are crazy! So was I.

    Doc

  • sir82
    sir82

    A JW friend recently told me that the Elders said JC decisions are never wrong. They are directed by Holy Spirit.

    So why is there the provision of an appeal?

  • John Aquila
    John Aquila
    DesirousOfChange

    A JW friend recently told me that the Elders said JC decisions are never wrong. They are directed by Holy Spirit.

    Years back I was told the same thing when this lady committed suicide after she was disfellowshipped. The elder tried to convinced me that the lady would have committed suicide anyway because she committed porneia..

  • FayeDunaway
    FayeDunaway

    You guys, I like you already so much, and you ALSO love baseball???

    <3 <3 <3

    gah! John that's just whacked.

  • Londo111
    Londo111

    In my case, they disfellowshipped a repentant person and reinstated an apostate...

    But JC decisions are never wrong...what a paradox!

  • dubstepped
    dubstepped
    Years back I was told the same thing when this lady committed suicide after she was disfellowshipped. The elder tried to convinced me that the lady would have committed suicide anyway because she committed porneia..

    Well, she obviously wasn't very sorry for what she had done, right? Not that suicide would always be due to sorrow over what one had done, but it certainly rings true in some cases. I can definitely see people being so destroyed over what they had done, and maybe that they weren't really heard by the committee, that they take such a tragic step. Jw's are such callous people. That elder should never have tried to convince anyone as to her motives. It just shows the attitude that they think they know everything, things spoken and unspoken, in their infinite judgement. I wonder if maybe he felt guilty and was really trying to convince himself.

    Anyway, back to the OP, I really love the comparison. These men have limited opportunity, and limited ability, to carry out what they're tasked with. And as far as Holy Spirit being behind it all, that's just dumb. I once asked why I was appointed a ministerial servant and was told basically that it was my hours and other participation. THAT is how they can see holy spirit active in a life. All they can do is make outward judgements based on whatever is presented externally. Many men have zero emotional intelligence, and those are who are making these judgement calls?! Men are often more interested in facts than feelings, and unfortunately repentance gets to feelings. It has taken me years as a man of study and reading to figure out how emotions work myself. When talking to other men they often get weirded out and can't go there. I'd hate to be in front of many of them trying to determine if I was genuinely sorry about anything in life.

  • Barrold Bonds
    Barrold Bonds

    the solution is robot umpires

    and if you think Pitch F/X is awesome, check out Field F/X. It's data on EVERY player during EVERY play. It's terabytes of data per game. It's mind blowing.

  • 1Averagejoe
    1Averagejoe
    Add to the equation that elders have no balls....

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit