How do you feel about exJW's who resist our efforts to effect change? (page 4)

nicolaou

Nice one oppostate, good to persist until we understood each other.

I've always advocated for subtlety when attempting to inform JWs of the problems with their belief system. Breadcrumbs as opposed to dumping a bucket of ice over their heads. I'm trying to keep the lines of communication open, not shock someone into a state where they feel they have to escape reality and solidify their position in the Organization™.

I think you have to know your audience and what will work with them. You have to be able to recognize the signs when they are "themselves" and letting their guard down, and when the cult personality takes over, putting them on high alert; and be prepared to de-escalate so they can feel safe and let their guard down again.

How one proceeds depends on who you're dealing with and whether you're prepared to jeopardize your relationship with them.

Gulf Coaster

I also can't respect, or understand, the position of people telling you not to make JWs feel awkward by exposing the BS of their cult, as long as you're mature about it and don't attack people personally. I don't know why they would think that. I certainly don't. Maybe they're of the mindset that hurting people's feelings is something to be avoided at all costs. Kind of like a form of political correctness. But the damage done to families by the cult is so evident, and should be a more important concern than worrying about making some people feel awkward or hurt. By insisting you leave them alone, they're supporting more families getting ruined and more lives wasted.

Hopefully that group of non-supporters is a very small one.

oppostate

Breadcrumbs as opposed to dumping a bucket of ice over their heads.

Uhhh, yeah. I'm disposed to throw a block of ice to the head. But frankly it doesn't seem to be working very well for me.

If you are successful in setting down the crumbs and patient enough to let them follow the path, kudos to you, you have my respect and admiration. I wish I could be more tactful sometimes instead bullishly confrontational.

The thing, though, is that I've been able to set a barrier where those who seek to pounce on me get a hefty wallop and the wafty persuasion not to do it again. On the same thought, it does allow generally sincere and more critically open minds to connect with mine.

It just pushes my buttons to deal with a truly fanatical mind-drone, not mentally subservient WT minions, but the holier-than-thou bullies, who spew off WT references to put pressure on you, and who slosh like a turd on a bucket whenever the WT makes a doctrinal move. Those folks are just begging for a block of ice upside the head.

flipper

NICOLAOU- Very good thread, good discussion topic. I have experienced the very same thing that you have my friend. My niece who has been out of the Witnesses since 1998 when she was 18 wouldn't directly criticize me for trying to open JW's eyes- but her view was that she respected the JW's right to decide what course they wanted to take the same way she wanted to be left alone by them to pursue the course SHE wanted to take.

And I really DO get that reasoning in some ex-JW's and more power to them. However- that being said - I agree with you that it doesn't mean that many of us who WANT to assist JW's to see how they are being mind controlled should be criticized for wanting to help people. As my niece stated JW's have DECIDED to make these decisions to stay- but my theory is that " no, they really HAVEN"T decided on their OWN to stay- they have been conned into staying or coerced to stay by cult mind control and manipulation . " And as time has gone on - my niece has seen that what I've been telling her is true. And she is seeing just how MUCH JW's and WE ourselves were manipulated in our minds as Witnesses . And now she accepts more so that I'm on this board and trying to assist people to see the injustices within the WT Society and open peoples eyes.

As Scully stated there is a right way to do it - not by knocking JW's over the head like Rick Ferron did all the time, but an ex-JW can make really good points with JW's to get them to think as long as we leave them with their dignity intact and don't become too combative just for the sake of becoming combative- if you get my drift.

There are ways to get our points across without causing huge fights which causes us to just be pissing in the wind anyway because then JW's get so defensive we don't accomplish anything but a waste of time and arguments. If it gets to that point when I'm talking to JW's I won't waste my time for hours and hours- I just excuse myself and say " you need to look at the facts and information on the Internet to inform yourself ". Then leave.

Interesting thread, thanks for posting it ! I think it's important for those of us who WANT to speak to JW's to help that we maintain our courage to do so . It doesn't matter what naysayers may think- what matters is caring and helping people

steve2

I've met ex-JWs who were indifferent to TTATT. But I have yet to meet any who tell me, directly or otherwise, to stop criticizing the organization or who are "resistant" (?). LisaRose and Morpheus have expressed my views well.

Giordano

If you click on User's at the top of this page you can count the number of people who signed up for this forum today, yesterday, for the last 30 days. Which can be 160 to 200 for a month. Some months it's upwards of 300 new ones.

Keeping in mind that this is one of a number of ex JW sites that cater to those who have exited or have issues and our discussions and debates are having an effect.

To the OP the positive nature of most of our discussions does provide a generous opportunity for those participating and or lurking to counter the WT conditioning.

I prefer the word 'conditioning' over mind control. Actually the word 'grooming' may even be more accurate in many cases since the Society is never concerned that they have done something very wrong or taught something that is reckless for their followers just that you obey and don't really question.

On an almost daily basis a good discussion starts up.....like this one......and we get a better understanding of the subject. For new ones and lurkers this might be the first time in their lives that they are exposed to people who bring some critical thinking into the conversation.

LoveUniHateExams

Good OP, nicolaou.

I'm one of those exJWs who has faded. I'm trying to live a normal life and, as I don't have relatives stuck in the cult, see no need to make waves.

I admire people who tell the WTS where to go, a la punkofnice, but I admit I don't have the inclination or the balls to do that.

I also strongly believe that there are aspects of JWism that are dangerous and crazy, and that government should be looking into this cancerous polyp of a religion, in an effort to force a reformation of sorts. So the brave people fighting to bring the WTS leaders to account must not be resisted by comfortable exJWs such as myself.

Although not a betting man, I'd lay money on the possibility that those people who resist efforts made to free other people by saying "leave them alone" or even "everyone's free to worship, even JWs" are faded JWs that may one day go back to the WTS.

LoveUniHateExams

I also agree with Scully's and flipper's excellent posts.

If you shout loudly in peoples' faces they will turn away and not listen; if you speak softly, even whisper, some people will listen.

blondie

I needed bread crumbs. It took me some time to awaken to the breadth and depth of the lies. But now I'm out and not afraid to be aware of my own reluctance to believe when talking to others coming to a realization. I have to say I read some books about jws that seemed flawed compared to my knowledge of Bethel and WT history. Ray Franz' books hit me as truth though and moved me to contact him when I was yet going to meetings.

The actions of some ex-jws has been embarrassing. but then the actions of many jws has been embarrassing.

Blondie

How do you feel about exJW's who resist our efforts to effect change?

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