memorial: how do you feel? (page 2)

CornerStone

Thankyou Ozziepost for your kind words.

Hello aChristian,

I'm not trying to be antagonistic or anything but 99.9% of JW mortality seems a bit high. I believe in the Christian memorial. I believe ALL conscientious Christians should partake of the bread and wine,(grape juice, whatever), as it's symbolic meaning you explained in your last post. But there are, I believe, a good number of "righteous" JW's whom Jesus would accept just as there are Mormons, Hindus, Buddahest, Agnostics and others,(no aetheist) no, just kidding, just kidding, some aethiest whom Jesus would judge mercifully. This is not to say I KNOW the exact percentage of those God would not condem. It is not for me to say. It is for me to say that only God can judge His creation. I do not believe people can do wrong and not pay a price, I'm just saying we should hope for the best for all men and women alike. I do apologise before hand for any statement I made that caused insult to you or anyone.

CornerStone

aChristian

: 99.9% of JW mortality seems a bit high.

CS,

I did not condemn 99.9% of JWs (the percentage who do not partake of the emblems during the JW Memorial). I simply said Christ's words did not bode well for them. Personally, I think true Christians who Christ will gather to himself and then appoint as judges of this world upon his return, will show many of them mercy knowing how badly they were mislead. However, I believe very few JWs will be judged by Christ to be true Christians.

But, hopefully, many of them will be shown mercy by their glorified Christian judges and allowed to survive Armageddon and then be helped by Christian king/priests to come into a real relationship with God. I believe Christian king/priests will also then help many "Mormons, Hindus, Buddahest, Agnostics and others" to do the same.

ozziepost

G'day all,

May I comment specifically? Thanks.

lurkerNoMore: <<I think we all should go and partake. Let's try to get the number of partakers over 10,000>>
I smiled at this, the temptation is certainly there for a bit of "devilment". Seriously though, let's remember the counsel of Paul to the church at Corinth: "First let a man approve himself after scrutiny, and thus let him eat of the loaf and drink of the cup."(1 Cor 11:28)A serious, reflective (and reverential) and prayerful frame of mind is called for whenever the Lord's Supper is partaken of.

CornerStone: Could I comment that our time as JWs may have conditioned us to be looking for an approved group or organisation. That's the usual retort to any doubting Witness: "Where else can you go?" The truth is that where we can go is to an individual relationship with Jesus Christ. That's something denied to us as Witnesses except through the mediatorship of the F&DS (Consider the second of the two Baptism questions, if you doubt this.) So it's not a matter of 99.9% of an org failing to be approved by God. The important thing is, has the individual follower of Christ been approved, or "born again". God bless you on your journey.

Ozzie

ozziepost

G'day again,

I'm sorry "unanswered" to have missed responding to your post, which I had intended to do above.

I wonder if you have read the 2 books by Raymond Franz. They will help you in your de-programming. What they do for many is to confirm, then clarify, their doubts on so many issues. Then they help you to see what has happened.

Following that it would be good to start reading "positive" Christian literature. I have found that a personal study of many of the Bible books along with various Bible commentaries have been invaluable. Re-confirm your faith in God. Open your mind (and heart) to a realisation that Jesus is Lord. "All authority has been given me..."(Matt 28:18) Finally, do not neglect your prayers to Him who gave His Son for us.

Ozzie

qwerty

I will be attending the memorial as usual. This time I've been seriously thinking of partaking. I keep telling my wife this and she takes it as a joke, although I can detect she is slightly worried.

I probably won't of course, out of respect for the families feelings!
I could wait and be one of the last ones to leave and have a crafty wee sip!

I suppose partaking at home on my own would be the best thing to do. I don't think there as to be others there to observe, do you? After all it's not like baptism (a public display of your dedication).

Simon

For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

Er...wasn't he supposed to have already come in 1874 / 1914 / 1929 / 1975 (delete as appropriate)
Why do they still do it if they truly believe that he has already arrived ??

Gopher

Simon, good point. An elder explained it to me this way, "Until he COMES means his COMING in the sense of coming to destroy this old system of things."

I guess we can get that word to mean whatever fits our thinking.

Now, let's talk about the difference between "presence" and "coming"! Oh, never mind.

Gopher (of the don't know whether I'm coming or going class)

ozziepost

G'day Simon,

<<"until he comes":
'Why do they still do it if they truly believe that he has already arrived ??'>>

Why is it that the most effective arguments are the most simple?

Well done. Thanks, Simon, I'll try and remember this point over the next coupla weeks.

Cheers,

Ozzie

aChristian

: I suppose partaking at home on my own would be the best thing to do. I don't think there as to be others there to observe, do you? After all it's not like baptism (a public display of your dedication).

"If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels." (Luke 9:26)

"But the cowardly ... their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." (Rev.21:8)

Edited by - aChristian on 21 March 2001 2:41:45

dark clouds

unanswered:
i no longer believe the wt and am still reasoning the degree to which i believe the bible. for one simple reason: just as a word cannot be used to define itself, i find it illogical to use the bible as proof and evidence for its own veracity.
in answer to your question, i still get the yearly invite from my folks to which i smile and say thank you. do i feel responsible to attend or guilty for not attending? my answers are simply, no and i dont.
my view on religion has been tainted by the WT, and now askews from the norm. if indeed ANY of what we were taught is true, i am hoping that this loving father(yahweh) and Jesus Christ will show their undying mercy and understanding on my soul, for the trauma i experienced and endured in the Witness Reform Movement. this is neither an excuse nor a justification, simply my reaction to an experience most of us here share.
in my studies i have come across a druid axiom which has helped me Nate. "a druid is dependent upon no man, and answerable solely to the voice of his own conscience."
i know you will see the truth in this
from the isle of Anglesey
CHUCK

memorial: how do you feel?

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