by oppostate 91 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
If Gertoux is the only one writing Wikipedia articles concerning the vowel pointing maybe so. Right!
No, but look at the vowel point explanation and how the best scholarly texts vowel point the Name--Whether in it's definite (Jehovah) or its construct (Jehovih) state. What pointed vowel is missing from the tetragrammaton in this explanation?
I never use Wikipedia as a reference! I am college edumacated after all, that is not allowed.
I still have no idea how any of that give you a certainty that we know how or even if it ever had a pronunciation.
So where does the e come from in the beginning?
And I think Martini is just one of many who make this whole subject silly, he may not be the "inventor" of Jehovah as you claim, but seriously, I think the old scribes are playing a mean trick on anyone determined to try to figure this out. Like putting someone in a round room and telling them to pee in the corner.
Tell me Opp are you an expert on Ketiv/Qere?
Also why does gerlad calim the yod as a vowel?
Hebrew names that being with yod though are consonants though no? Isaac for instance. Or Jerusalem.
Then still the E in the beginning, why is it not an A?
Hebrew names that being with yod though are consonants though no? Isaac for instance. Or Jerusalem.
Then still the E in the beginning, why is it not an A?
If I understand your question correctly, you're asking why Judah (Yeh-Hoo-Dahh) for example has its first letter Yod as a consonant and why is it followed by a short E, a schewa? If that's the case then the answer is Yod is a consonant it is sometimes used to give a hint at using an I (ee sound) or an E (eh sound).
Also the accentuation of Hebrew words is mostly at the end of the word, so you find that the beginning of a word has a short sound that is not accented or emphasized. (adoNAY, eloHIM, etc.) Semitic languages have words using a mostly three consonant root base, depending on the vowels used the meaning can be specified.
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BTW sorry about mixing up "it's" with "its" I've done it several times in this thread. Dang it!
Isaac = Yitzhak
Jerusalem = Yirusalem
Where does Josephus' 4th vowel come from?
This all seems like a quagmire to me. I mean divine...
I don't believe we know what the real YHWH would be, and if we could it still wouldn't matter.
I don't believe anyone left any conclusive clues, the original was lost to superstition.
And while Martini or anyone else of that time period may not have invented Jehovah, they certainly were the point of reinforcing it, an unknown as fact.
OPP,
It's incorrect to say," Ex-Jw's who say Jehovah is incorrect, are incorrect."
YHWH and Jehovah are not equally "correct" or equally "just as right." They are both equally NOT GOD'S NAME. They are both equally the guesswork of humans, equal assertions, equally incorrect.
It would be more correct to say that according to the Bible, a proper "name" for God doesn't matter. He would have used his power to preserve it, if it mattered, but he didn't. Therefore, the real issue is not which "handle" some sect gives to God, but whether or not it matters at all.
In the case of JWs, they claim that restoring the divine name is proof that they have THE truth. If a JW admits that Yahweh and Jehovah are equally as good, and that it doesn't matter which one you use, then "restoring" it is not proof of anything.
That is a big deal, because JWs have a core set of beliefs that they feel are proof of their sects belief.
Main belief: WTBTS is God's Organization, the sole channel of truth.
Why? 1) Only they preach the good news. 2) Only they have true love for their brothers. 3) Only they use God's "name".
Most arguments are not just about Raymundis Martini, but about #3.
DD
Where does Josephus' 4th vowel come from?
IOUE:
1. I; 2. O; 3. U; 4. E. in Latinized form, which in English it's transliterated as Jove and for me translates into Jehovah. Not that Jupiter are the same, but that Jupiter (Deus Pater) and "Jehovah God/Our Father" are terms that may have been borrowed/shared for the name of a Supreme Fatherly Deity.
To me it doesn't matter that no one can be certain of the original Divine Name's pronunciation.
My conclusion is that the English tradition is to write down Hebrew names beginning with YH and YHW as Jeho- and Jehu-. Which at the end of some Hebrew names shows up in English as -jah and -jahu.
This isn't less worthy in any fashion to the more academically preferred Yahweh. I still maintain that these two suggested English translations for the Name are just that, a suggestion, a proposed pronunciation. In so being they are just as good, but I opt for Jehovah--it being more traditional English usage.
I too agree that we may never know the exact pronunciation with definite surety, and as it is common use in the Greek Scriptures of the New Testament, the encouraged way to call upon the One God for believers in Christ is to call Him, Father.
I'm assuming you agree that saying "Jehovah" or adding it to verses in the Bible isn't really proof of anything.
DD
I'm assuming you agree that saying "Jehovah" or adding it to verses in the Bible isn't really proof of anything.
Using Jehovah is proof of a consistent tradition in expressing Hebrew names like Jehoshaphat, Jehohanan, Jehu, etc.
If one prefers Yahweh then why not do as the Sacred Name Movement followers do and use Yah-shua, Yirmiyahu, Yeshayahu etc. ???
