Oh Morrislamb,you say I shouldnt accuse anyone of lying unless I can back it up.Well you also cannot assume that she is telling the truth unless you have proof also.Works both ways.Yes I agree that my personal experiences with Mrs Boer should not be posted but then the person who posted her name in the first place shouldnt have either..And my reason for not giving my email is because simply the "hate"mail I would recieve.For the record I do have facts to back up what I said but am not going to discuss them here.I guess the point Im trying to make is that everyone assumes that the story is true when there has been a lot of manipulation and half truths.Does the person who posted Vickys name think that you are helping Vicky by making her name public?No probably worse.Please keep in mind that this is case against Jehovahs Witness and not her father.She has never sued her father and in fact she refused to and still does.Kind of contradictory to me.I am not denying that there is child abuse amogst J.W just like in every religion but in this case it has a lot of holes in it.You see I have heard both sides of the story,i have seen facts on paper in Mrs Boers own words and Im afraid its going to backfire soon.But we will see.If real proof come out at the end,I will be surprised.Trust me she will not win the case and then she will be alone and thats what worries me.Maybe I should write a book,lol but I dont have the patients.
WOMAN SUES CHURCH; STORM IN THE HALL/Toronto Sun
by morrisamb 59 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
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honestly
This is too Waiting....how dare you call this man a bastard!Do you know that the"alleged abuse "is true?Were you there?Did you seem the abuse take place?See you are assuming hes a bastard and he has never been approached by the law about the "alleged abused"HELLO! lets at least wait until hes been charged which the crime then past judgement.The police were approached when it happend and they themselves said they was nothing to charge him with.
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Kismet
WARNING: Trigger potential
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I have tried so hard to keep quiet, to quit these boards but arrogant &^&@#$ force my hand.
Honestly:
This man stuck his finger inside his daughters vagina. The elders then insisted that she sit in front of three men and her father and explain how deep his fingers went inside her.
Men of conscience resigned as elders over how the Society dealt with her situation. But nooo according to you it isn't true.
You are the one twisting facts. And yes I do know the facts. This girl was abused. Her mother was not told to report it and the Society told the elders not to report. Later on another body of elders also investigated and failed to follow the law and subjected her to another mental rape during said investigation.
The Society is culpable for the added mental strain and re-raping of this girl while she was a teen not to mention the interference they played in preventing the initial abuse from being investigated by trained secular authorities.
I am glad to hear you are free of the trap called Watchtower but your defense herein makes any such departure rather hollow. If you did indeed know all the facts, you would not be defending the Society in this matter. It sounds more like you have a personal beef with this girl. Be that as it may, a personality dispute is not grounds for denying that abuse took place as you have done here.
Kismet
Edited by - Kismet on 4 September 2002 3:24:3
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hawkaw
I have lived and breathed Vicki's case over the last little while and when I see Kismet having to make a post when he is trying to relax it makes my blood boil.
Everything that is said by Kismet happened. Think I am making it up? Well I guess you should see what the former elders have to say about it all. You should also read the PUBLIC record and see what the Watchtower has agreed too and what they haven't. I have personally met one of the former elders.
Oh!! Did anyone notice I used the word PUBLIC???? Vicki Boer's name is public because there is a PUBLIC court case going on.
I know what happened. Every sick and disgusting little detail and Vicki is going to have to relive it and she is going to have to be cross examined by some stupid defence counsel.
One thing you and I do agree about Honestly. It is a tough case because of the voluntary nature of the organization and the protection under the Charter.
A few final points about the father. After the father admitted the abuse, who allowed him to remain in the congregation and knock on the unsuspecting public's doors for years? Hey who was that? And another final point - he has been a sick - like really sick.
This case is NOT against the Jehovah's Witnesses. This case is against one of the many Watchtower corporations and three members (elders) of the corporation.
hawk
Edited by - hawkaw on 4 September 2002 8:29:18
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jwsons
You win again hawk. Your reasoning is sharp and reasonable as it used to be.Thank you.
jwsons
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Scully
honestly:
If you're so sure of all the "facts" that you're aware of, maybe you need to get in touch with the elders' lawyers and the Canadian Branch Office so you can testify on their behalf.
What's that?? You don't want to go public with your knowledge?? You just prefer to slam her from the comfort of your computer desk and maintain your anonymity?? You mean you're a coward?? Your testimony would be inadmissible because it's "hearsay"?? Oh geez. That's a tough break. Cuz the WTS really could use all the help it can get.
honestly, I'm not Vicki, so I can't quantify what the kinds of injuries (physical, emotional, mental, spiritual) would be worth to me, if I went through the same sort of thing as she did. By the same token, neither can you. Certainly the impact on her self esteem - in that it would affect her choice of livelihood - coupled with the fact that someone who was abused the way she was would likely need therapy for a prolonged period of time - is worth SOMETHING in compensatory damages. What price would you put on your OWN suffering? What price would you put on your child's suffering? Again, just trying to put things in perspective for you.
Keep in mind that $700,000 is NOT, in all likelihood, what Vicki will be putting in the bank when this is over. Do you have any idea what her legal fees are going to be? If there's a settlement, she'll be "fortunate" to get half of that amount, with a good chunk of that going to settle her lawyer's bill. In any case, the amount of money is immaterial because it will never be able to buy back the trust and innocence that was ROBBED from her.
The case is about seeking restitution for a wrong that should never have been committed. The case is about elders meddling in child abuse cases that should not even be part of their jurisdiction. If it was YOU or YOUR CHILD who was abused and molested by this man, and then intimidated and shamed into silence by a group of three of HIS FRIENDS, you would feel justified in seeking compensation too.
When you can "honestly" put yourself in her shoes and walk a mile in them, then maybe you'll be able to speak with some degree of credibility. When you're so sure of yourself that you'd be willing to testify against her, call Clive Thomas and offer to do just that. Otherwise back off.
Love, Scully
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morrisamb
Imagine what honestly is bringing up and multiply that by 1000 and you'll get just a glimpse of what my family went through before there were people like Hawkaw and Scully who are Knights in shining armour as far as I am concerned!
Let's say there were some truth to your position honestly, even you sort of hinted something happened. That is such a clue. I've heard molesters say, "I never had sex with that child." No, but he pulled out his privates and asked the child to play with it. You see the problem with this logic.
Who are we to determine the severity of the trauma to the victim? I think this world needs a lot more Solomons. Let's hope the court in Toronto has one.
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deddaisy
I never said i joined it........ and yes I was even baptized.-----------------Honestly
you're going to have to run that by me again.....on second thought, don't bother, I think I've got the picture........
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Scully
morrisamb:
>>>Imagine what honestly is bringing up and multiply that by 1000 and you'll get just a glimpse of what my family went through before there were people like Hawkaw and Scully who are Knights in shining armour as far as I am concerned!<<<<blush> gawrsh!
Seriously though, I think it deserves mention that people like Hawkaw, Kismet, Bill Bowen, dungbeetle, LadyLee, me and MANY MANY others are not doing what we do in order to be viewed as 'knights in shining armour'. I daresay there are probably less than half a dozen people on this forum who know my real name, and the same goes for the vast majority of supporters of this cause. If I remember correctly, even Bill Bowen started the "silentlambs" website anonymously, with no intention of making a name for himself.
This was never about "us", it has always been about advocating for the victims and survivors. Personally, if it ever did start to become about "me" rather than the survivors, I hope someone would have the sense to smack me real hard upside the head and bring me back down to earth. Because the day that it starts to be about "me" instead of the victims and survivors, I'll no longer be doing it for the right reasons. I'd rather my identity remain anonymous than risk the real issues losing their deserved attention, and I know that is also true for everyone helping in these cases.
Love, Scully
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Faraon
Honestly
I never said i joined it.I was raised in it as a child,and when I was older made the decision on my own to leave,nobody forced me to stay,nobody tried to brainwash me into staying,I was always treated well by the Witnesses and I havent been to a meeting in at least 10 yrs.I have never been shunned by my family or the witnesses for my decision and yes I was even baptized.So not all ex-jehovahs witnesses feel so much contempt for them and in some cases there is reason for it,but not always.
First of all, you are liar. You say you never joined the religion, but then you say you were baptized. You joined the cult by being baptized. No two ways about it.
I was in the borg for 10 years, and although personally I never shunned anyone, I was told to do so.
After my disassociation, my brain-washed flesh brother, who lived rent-free in my house in Guadalajara as an adult with wife and children for eleven years, has shunned me since my leaving and I have lost all contact with him. My cousin, whose son lived in my house for over 6 months without any charge, told me she would not talk to me until I became a JW again. I was not disfellowshipped. I left on my own. So it was all freedom of choice to me.
I don't feel contempt for them (JWs), but instead I pity them. I was one of them and I know how sincere people can be trapped in their cult.
Thanks to them, I am an atheist. Had I not being there, I would probably still be trapped in some religion. I began asking myself some questions and came to the conclusion that the root of evil is in the bible.