Is it 607 or 586 ?

happy man

>I have seen comercial fore a bok from a swedish man who say JW are wrong on 607 issu, here on this site.
Now I find this issu on the JW site thuchstone.
 ;
Just to throw another nugget in on the 587/6 date, 
Archeology claims that Nebuchadnezzar became King in about 605 or 604. In looking at the seventy year prophecy of Jer 25 it clearly shows that the prophecy was made in the first year of Neb, and that it was a prophesy applying to the time of Nebuchadnezzar not his predecessor Nabopollasar. The math is simple. From 604 to 537 only about 67 years. Or others like to end the seventy years at the actual defeat of Babylon in 539. That's 65 then. Not the 70 the Bible clearly prophecied. So they don't even allow for seventy years in there from Neb to 539 or 537.
But it gets way more detailed. A close look at Jer 25 shows that the 70 years is a culmination of Neb actually coming down and desolating the area. Jer 25 vs 15 and 29 verify that the cup drinking of seventy years of punishment starts with the destruction of Jerusalem itself.
So now if we used archeology we would have to start at 587/6 which leaves only about 50 years. Not the 70 of the Bible.
There is much more. Namely my point in the above is not the establishment of 607, although there is much evidence for that too, as much as to show that archeology is wrong in its dates prior to 539. It's wrong in it's date for Nebuchadnezzar of 605 and it's wrong in it's 587/6 date for the destruction of Jerusalem.
As regard your second question, I want to also give it to you in a nutshell. I encourage you to study it with your teacher. Or at least ask for information.
The Kingdom line was interrupted in 607. You know, King David, King Solomon, etc. After Jerusalems destruction there were no more Jewish Kingd. This started the "gentile times." The times when there was no theocratic King making God's rule known or even present on earth through an organized government. BUT WAIT! The Messiah was supposed to be the King in the line of David. So did the "gentile times" stop when the Messiah Jesus came? No, Jesus did not take the throne while on earth as Messiah. In fact he shunned it because he understood the throne would be one he would take after going back to heaven. Further scriptural evidence, some of which has already been posted, show that Jesus would take this Kingdom throne later.
So how long would the "gentile times" last until Jesus took his throne? How long would he sit and wait to recieve authority? Certain prophesies of the Bible book of Daniel that the "Knowledge book" touches on (the Live Forever book explains it a little more clearly in my opinion) show how long the "gentile times" would last. 2,520 years according to Daniel. 607 to 1914 is 2,520 years. Therefore we believe Jesus became King and made his "presence" as King known then. Kingdom interests were again activated on earth through an theocratic organized government. Hence we have Jehovah's Witnesses preaching such world-wide in line with Matt 24:14.
Quite a big nutshell. There is SOOOO much more to this. Perhaps you simply need some "suggested reading" so you can get it all at your own pace. Plus there is no need for us to present all those scriptures and cross references and facts here since the WT has already done it. But we are happy to clarify or put in our own words what we can. Anyway, cheers.

The_Bad_Seed

Who will reply first? Larsguy, or JanH?

Edited by - the_bad_seed on 4 September 2002 14:48:19

truthseeker1

I'm not a historian but find it funny that nobody but JWs say it was 607. What I find even funnier is that when they found that the calcuation to 1914 forgot counted year 0, they pushed back the 606 to 607 so they could keep their 1914 date.

ISP

Whatever date it was...does it mean anything? It all happened a long time ago.

ISP

Mutz

Like most things the WTBTS has to say it's just more intellectual tripe. Fitting history around what they say is the truth.

Crazy151drinker

Sorry, but I cant count that high....

ItsJustlittleoldme

Hi Happy Man,

Quicky question for ya: Where did you get the dates that are in the bible? For, unless I am missing something, there are no dates in the bible, right?

So, that means that your organization from God had to rely on historical dates to come up with any dates at all, and therefor your 1914 date is also not of theological origin, but has been determined via secular methods.

With that knowledge, can you answer these two nagging questions for me:

A:) Why would god require his annointed to rely on secular historians as the only basis to be able to determine when Jesus returned?

B.) Why would your organization reject dates that disprove your timeline, while accepting other dates that do validate your time line, considering both these dates are arrived at with the same scientific methods, and in fact, the rejected date has more supporting evidence suggesting it is correct then the date that your society relies on.?

Thanks for helping me answer these questions,

Big Tex

No one believes the 607 date. Anyone doing a modicum of research can prove otherwise. I found this in 5 minutes:

The Bullae House, east of the House of Ahi'el, is so named for a collection of almost 50 clay sealings (bullae) with Hebrew lettering found there. The floor of this house, only partly excavated, was covered by a thick charred destruction layer containing the bullae as well as pottery vessels, arrowheads and limestone cult stands, all of which attest to the character of the house as a public building. The finds are typical of the final stage of the Iron Age and the bullae found in this context clearly date to the Babylonian destruction of Jerusalem in 587-6 BCE. The bullae, made of fingernail-sized lumps of soft clay shaped as flat disks, were affixed to a string binding a papyrus document and then stamped with a seal. To open and read the document, the bulla sealing had to be broken in order to separate it from the string. The conflagration that destroyed the house and burnt the documents stored in it also fired the clay of the bullae, thus preserving them in very good condition - fully legible. They bear dozens of Hebrew personal names, two of them belonging to personages known from the Bible. One is Gemaryahu son of Shafan, a high official at the court of King Jehoiakim of Judah who reigned on the eve of the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians:

Then Baruch read from the book the words of Jeremiah in the house of the Lord, in the chamber of Gemaryahu the son of Shafan the scribe, in the upper court at the entrance of the new Gate of the Lord's House in the hearing of all the people. (Jeremiah 36:10; see also 11-12, 25)

Here's the link:

http://www.israel-mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH00uy0

Quotes

Multiple choice answers:

587-6 BC
Who Cares?
All of the above

scholar

happy man

There is much controversy concerning the Fall of Jerusalem as to whether it is reckoned to be 586/587 or 607 BCE. There is evidence supporting both claims and it simply boils down to personal preference. The generally accepted dates of 586/587 is based upon a considerable amount of secular evidence but falls short in dealing with the problematic seventy years. The 607 date nicely accommodates a 70 years of desolation/servitude for Judah and is ell reconciled to the prophetic Gentile Times.

This subject has generated a considerable amont of comment in the form of interpretation and opinon but there has been insufficient attention paid to the matter of exegesis. This is especially so in the vexed subject of the seventy years. My personal preference is for the 607 date as it fulfills all the necessary requirements for chronology and prophecy.

scholar

BA MA Studies in Religion, University of Sydney, Australia

in

Is it 607 or 586 ?

Share this