What is a christian

A Paduan

In light of a recent thread by ozzie showing the wt reaffirming salvation by works, I wanted to put forward a post questioning what a christian is.

My own belief is that christianity is about kindness that marginalises the fears surrounding any self-cost (any, even spiritual - I believe that's a secret truth). The belief in salvation by works is the belief in a trade - a buying and selling. The very term, 'kindness', has been brought into the language of trade by jwism. What in the world is "undeserved kindness"? Is it the other type of 'kindness'?

Another thread regarding 'why there is not sufficient biblical proof' , highlights the type of negotiations that are involved before the trade takes place - nailing Him down before lifting Him up, then the labour - and that is a real killing off of what is christian.

It is my firm belief that the 'seeking for a sign' and subsequent earning of heaven (finding the 'true' religion to work for) are parts of a trade, of what is thought of as love - but Love is not even known. The better and higher up in that business world one gets, the darker is the delusion when hearing the salutations at marketplaces from without and within.

The christian, like the Samaritan, gives love without heeding consequence, believing in Love - even believing against hope.

May christians always upend the tables in the temples.

paduan

Edited by - a paduan on 4 September 2002 21:32:9

Inkie

What you describe is quite nice; however, in and of itself, those good 'kind' and loving' qualities, as good as they are, and they are good, do not make a Christian a Christian. A Christian is a "Christ." A Christian is a "Messiah." A Christian is "a chosen one," an "anointed one." Chosen and anointed by whom? Chosen and anointed by God and/or Christ. These are the biblical definitions of those words. How does one know if he/she has been chosen? He or she knows by having received the promised holy spirit. First and foremost before all other definitions, it is my opinion that one must be the definition of the words before any additional definitions can be set in place. (In an argument, the premise has to be true before the following logic can stand.) According to the Hebrew scriptures, the prophets and kings of Israel were anointed with oil (and holy spirit) and thus were themselves Christs, Messiahs, Chosen Ones, and Anointed Ones. Remember the prophet Balaam (who had a talking ass), well...he was a Christian in the true and biblical sense of the word, yet he cursed Israel. Not very "christian" according to our supposed current understanding of the word, yes? Anyway, that's all I have to say on that.

Enjoy your day.

Inkie

A Paduan

And they are good..... but not christian ??

Anyway, that is a point - it is a choice of God - and being 'anointed' or 'blessed' is of course, simply a gift. And the 'qualities' that you pointed out are just that - the qualities of being that.

He or she knows by having received the promised holy spirit

How does anyone know who has received the Holy Spirit? Ans. By how their fruit tastes - not the amount of it, or even the look of it, or even the appearance of the tree - but the taste of it (see above post). That's how you'll know them.

"Taste and see" - it's an old song.

paduan

Edited by - a paduan on 4 September 2002 22:19:2

JosephMalik

'kind' and loving' qualities, as good as they are, and they are good, do not make a Christian a Christian.

Inkie,

True, such qualities may make a sheep but such good qualities can also belong to an antichrist or evil slave or man of lawlessness. There is something else that must also be considered. So you are correct with the perspective you offered which can also be shown by many other texts. We may enjoin the faith but it is up to Christ to choose those that belong to Him. It works like this:

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Some may think they are chosen but notice:

John 13:18 I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.

The final selection therefore is not ours to make but His alone.

Joseph

A Paduan

Keep up guys.

I'm back to the beginning of the thread. Those "qualities" are not something earned. 'Antichrists' and 'evil slaves' may look the part, show the effort, they may fool everyone, including themselves - but that "quality" is not part of it - not something earned.

Taste and see.

paduan

Edited by - a paduan on 4 September 2002 22:6:8

JosephMalik

Ans. By how their fruit tastes - not the amount of it, or even the look of it, or even the appearance of the tree - but the taste of it (see above post).

A Paduan .

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Our Lord had a different view, that the fruit should remain. We know that some would not remain but fall away to false teachings. So it does not matter how it tastes does it?

Joseph

A Paduan

So it does not matter how it tastes does it?

You will know them by their fruit.

What do you do with fruit?

paduan

Edited by - a paduan on 4 September 2002 23:10:54

A Paduan

Getting back to "what is christian".

As stated, it is 'anointed' - agreed.

How do you know who's annointed, including yourself?

paduan

Edited by - a paduan on 4 September 2002 22:25:33

Inkie

Romans 8:14 For whoever are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God....you have received the spirit of adoptions as sons, BY VIRTUE which we cry, "Abba! Father!" THE SPIRIT HIMSELF GIVES TESTIMONY TO OUR SPIRIT that WE ARE sons of God.

Thus, others do not know WHAT WE KNOW about ourselves and what we have received from the Father. And thus, again, Christians (think biblical definition) make disciples of people of all the nations.... and then, when it is God's and Christ's will, they experience "the spirit himself giv[ing] testimony to [their] spirit...."

--Inkie

A Paduan

I know where your coming from.

They do make disciples. So how do they make disciples, instead of slaves - by the blessing, those qualities, the gift of the Holy Spirit?

I don't infer that a christian is someone Only beheld in that quality or 'form', as they do cry, i.e. sin. It's said that the elect cry both by day and night. And that leads me to another question, "Have the 'elect' received the Spirit, or are they just that - elect - yet to"

paduan

Edited by - a paduan on 4 September 2002 23:13:19

What is a christian

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