Reforming the IREFORMABLE?

by DannyBear 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  DannyBear

  January of 2000 was my first real 24/7 exposure to the Internet and ex-jw sites. It was thrilling to read the real life stories of others just like myself, who had escaped the Watchtower. The affirmation of my own conclusions regarding the truth, and its so-called faithful and discreet slave. I felt a real sense of well being, a relief that others had come to the very same conclusions.

  I was almost startled to find that there were some still active/inactive jws visiting these discussion boards, who actually were espousing REFORM. Reformation of the Watchtower Society, had never even been a consideration for me. I mean, how can you select just one or two falsities to reform, when the entire belief structure is based on a lie?

  So it is that I have had some difficulty in throwing my unreserved support towards any reform movements. In fact I have many reasons to question the validity of such efforts.

  I understand the emotional fervor generated by the reformation efforts regarding child abuse, the blood issue. Anyone with a semblance of a human heart can and should be supportive of such a cause. It is a given.

  That being said, here are my reservations about reforming the Watchtower and those who promote such;

  1. Would they (reformers) continue to practice and promote the WTBS religion if the desired changes were made?

  2. Once their objectives have been attained, would they advocate a return to the religion?

  3. Many of these reformers have already been disfellowshiped before the outcome of their whistle blowing campaign is over. When successful, will they seek reinstatement, and continue to proselytize new members again?

  4. It doesnt matter, some say. I think it does. If they (reformers) seek support from those of us who have made a clean break, those already convinced the WTBS is a total spiritual wasteland, not just the current cause celeb. Will they return and follow the religions shunning requirements again? Now unable to even visit the very Internet sites that helped them win their fights?

  Any answer in the affirmative, brings a whole new set of concerns to me. The evidence is piled high, as regards the lies, predictions of end time dates, serving in the military, shunning, medical nonsense, subjugation of women, forcing door to door ministry on young children, the list is very long and well known.

  I for one, would like to know just how far is far enough, when promoting reform, of what seems to me to be IREFORMABLE.

  Danny

  Edited by - DannyBear on 9 September 2002 21:5:48
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  hillary_step

  Danny,

  When you consider the changes that have been forced upon the WTS by those outside of its boundaries, the 'worldly' authorities, active and scholarly XJW's, and the natural process of a socially massaged theological evolution that have had a direct effect of the WTS changing its policies, it must be acknowledged that 'reform' is happening daily. It is of course fought at every avenue by the WTS, but it cannot prevail against natural forces beyond its control.

  I agree that while 'that which is crooked cannot be made straight', it is possible to influence any religion, however tightly controlled to adopt less dangerous and anti-social dogmas. This has happened over the centuries to all religions and it will continue to happen into the future.

  The WTS is after all. and this should never be forgotten, is just another fringe adventist religion which has had trouble growing up.

  Best regards - HS

  Edited by - hillary_step on 9 September 2002 13:52:12
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  Gopher

  HS is right. Reform is possible, it's just the extent and pace of the reform which is totally uncertain.

  Let's take the child molestation issue. It is possible to seek reform for the sake of the safety of the children within the religion without wishing to become fully involved again as a member. Bill, Barbara and others who have spent years inside the organization and who have seen and come to know about abused ones inside, due to their contacts, naturally care about these particular victims.

  So because the JW organization isn't likely to go away anytime soon, at least it is hoped that the atmosphere for the helpless/innocent children on the inside can be made safer through reform efforts directed at the leadership (and education of the rank-and-file members to the extent possible, through news stories and through shows like Dateline NBC, for example).
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  Sentinel

  Hi Danny,

  I think the main concern for supporting some type of "Reform", is not the fact that we ever would go back ourselves, but that those still "in", might be able to be relieved of the terrible acts of da'g and df'g, and the shunning that goes with it. The terrible separation from loved ones caused by their dogmatic belief structure for discipline. Right now, as you know, there is so much of that going on since the borg has tightened their control over members. Many loved ones are separated and labeled, and so many are suffering because this has caused great divisions in families and marital structures. Both sides are suffering. The JW feels compelled to follow the instructions of the borg. It is so unloving and so unnatural.

  There are still a very large group who would no doubt still be attached or stay faithful if this area of belief was changed (reformed) That might only come with a "split-off" religion, who knows. If there were a "spin-off" religion, many might go back and that would be their decision.

  I just feel myself that some changes are very much in the wind.

  Love and Light,

  Sentinel
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  bigboi

  What about the JW's belief in an imminent end of the world? The 1914 doctrine is still a major part of the religion's platform. That to me is an indicator that the jw religion cannot be reformed, but has to either cease to exist or become something totally different.
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  hillary_step

  BigBoi,

  What about the JW's belief in an imminent end of the world? The 1914 doctrine is still a major part of the religion's platform. That to me is an indicator that the jw religion cannot be reformed, but has to either cease to exist or become something totally different.

  Yes, perhaps it will become different in many ways, as religions have done through the ages. Reformation is in the eye of the beholder. When the Catholic Church 'reformed' its Latin Mass away, a splinter movement of conservative Catholics decried the changes and formed their own church. This will happen if any drastic changes are made in WTS theology and that is why when changes occur, and they do occur, they are made very slowly and often so deceitfully that their adherents do not even notice them.

  The 1914 doctrine is undergoing change at WTS headquarters, as I can evidence from a conversation that I had with a very senior member of WTS staff, and I mean very senior, two years ago.

  When I raised the issue of the flawed 607-1914BCE doctrine, it was not denied, but the response was interesting. He said, "We do not need chronology to prove that we are living in the 'Time of the End', we have the visible sign from Jesus'. This is a very important comment and shows the current thinking of the WTS which seems to be to slowly bury 1914 in favor of a 'visible prophecy'.

  The problem with the term 'reform' is that it pre-supposes, at least a tacit approval of those being 'reformed', that they are in agreement with what is happening. This will never be the case with the WTS who market enforced changes on their dogmas as 'simplification' from above. But the reality is that they have changed many of their dogmas over the years, this has certainly 'reformed' their dangerous behavior in the life of the average JW's, though of course there are many more changes that need to be made.

  If every XJW were to remain silent for fifty years and then return to view the WTS, they would only recognise the skeleton, but certainly not the body. A natural process of theological change, over which the WTS has virtually no control is slowly, inexorably ocurring on a daily basis. If you wish to call it 'reform' or 'change' is really just a moot point.

  Best regards - HS

  Edited by - hillary_step on 9 September 2002 14:19:0
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  outoftheorg

  Hi Danny.

  I think reform and the efforts by some to cause reform are acceptable. This as others have stated would bring a measure of freedom and protection to the jw's that they do not now enjoy.

  Short of destroying the wbts, "which I doubt would happen" and since I still have children and relatives in the borg. I would like them to realize the benefits of this reform. Rather than risk my family dying from blood issues etc. Then we can continue to work on getting them to see the other evils.

  This does not mean that I would in any way support the reformed jw religion but would continue to advocate its downfall.

  Even getting the changes on df ing and blood would bring some relief to us apostates and justify our efforts in that area.

  I believe these changes "if they occur" would cause many to leave the religion and lesson its stature in the eyes of many and lesson its income and turn it into another small nonsense religion.

  Then the continuing exposure of their false teachings would continue to degrade any stature they may still have.

  Then, when they are in a weaker position maybe They would fall completely. Although as I stated I doubt they will dry up and go away. There are always enough troubled searching people to be attracted to it.

  Outoftheorg
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  Reborn2002

  Reforming the inherent evil of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society would be about as productive as attempting to alter the ideals of the Taliban to make it more family-friendly.

  They would appear as whitewashed graves, but on the inside their true nature is seen.

  FILTH.
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  hillary_step

  Reborn,

  Did you know that in its early days the Quakers humiliated people by placing them in village stocks and having people scourge until they bled and others throw rotten fruit at them, ( Gerardi Croesi "Historiana Quakeriana 1696 ). Well, today they are rightly known as a peaceful and relaxed community who put the dignity of others above their own. Is this 'reformation'.

  The only thing we can count on in life is death and change.

  Best - HS
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  ozziepost

  But will reform make them Christian?