Are the Disassociated shunned?

by NotBlind 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    I would encourage those who wrote the statement "those who simply leave the faith are not shunned" to review the WT May 1st 2002 issue, "Jehovah Hates The Course of Treachery".

    10. Are we personally alert, so that no unrighteousness is found on our lips? For example, can our family members really trust what we say? Can our spiritual brothers and sisters in the congregation do the same? It would be easy to develop the habit of couching ones words in terms that are technically accurate but misleading.

    Here is the reason given in the article for shunning those who disassociate themselves:

    By also avoiding persons who have deliberately disassociated themselves, Christians are protected from possible critical, unappreciative, or even apostate views.
    Hebrews 12:15, 16.
    Here is a quote of the Hebrews 12:15, 16 that they use as their authority:
    *** Rbi8 Hebrews 12:15-16 ***
    15 carefully watching that no one may be deprived of the undeserved kindness of God; that no poisonous root may spring up and cause trouble and that many may not be defiled by it; 16 that there may be no fornicator nor anyone not appreciating sacred things, like E'sau, who in exchange for one meal gave away his rights as firstborn.

    What does that have to do with leaving the faith? This is talking about people who are corrupting the congregation. A person who disassociates is not corrupting the congregation, he is simply leaving the faith. Regarding their concern about "critical, unappreciative, or even apostate views"... they are forgetting about 1 Thessalonians 5:21-22 "Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine. 22 Abstain from every form of wickedness". If someone in the congregation finds something that is clearly in violation of biblical principals, it is his scriptural DUITY to point it out, and NOT be shunned.

    At no time does the article provide a reason for making a distinction between "disassociation" and "those who simply leave the faith". At no time does the article provide scriptural reasoning for making a distinction. It is my opinion that the writers of the article need to review 1 Corinthians 4:6 and w90 2/1 11 Identifying the Man of Lawlessness.

    w90 2/1 11 Identifying the Man of Lawlessness

    Identifying

    theManofLawlessness

    "The lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with."2 THESSALONIANS 2:8.

    WE LIVE in an era of lawlessness. It is a worldwide phenomenon. Everywhere there is fear of lawless predators and the threat they present to our person and property. Yet, there is a far more insidious lawless element that has been at work for many centuries. In the Bible it is called "the man of lawlessness."

    2

    It is vital that we identify this man of lawlessness. Why? Because he is intent on undermining our good standing with God and our hope of eternal life. How? By getting us to abandon the truth and to believe falsehoods in its place, thus diverting us from worshiping God "with spirit and truth." (John 4:23) It is evident from his actions that this particular lawless element opposes God and his purposes, as well as his dedicated people.

    3

    The Bible tells of this man of lawlessness at 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Inspired by Gods spirit, the apostle Paul wrote: "Let no one seduce you in any manner, because [Jehovahs day of destruction of this wicked system] will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed." Here Paul prophesied that apostasy would develop and a man of lawlessness would appear before this systems end. In fact, Paul stated in 2Th 2 verse 7: "The mystery of this lawlessness is already at work." So in the first century, this lawless one had begun to manifest himself.

    The

    LawlessMansOrigin

    4

    Who originated and supports this man of lawlessness? Paul answers: "The lawless ones presence is according to the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and portents and with every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be saved." (2 Thessalonians 2:9, 10) So Satan is the father and sustainer of the man of lawlessness. And just as Satan is opposed to Jehovah, His purposes, and His people, so is the man of lawlessness, whether he realizes it or not.

    5

    Those who go along with the man of lawlessness will suffer the same fate as he doesdestruction: "The lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with . . . and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence." (2 Thessalonians 2:8) That time for the destruction of the man of lawlessness and his supporters ("those who are perishing") will come shortly "at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction."2 Thessalonians 1:6-9.

    6

    Paul further describes this lawless one, saying: "He is set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone who is called god or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god." (2 Thessalonians 2:4) So Paul warns that Satan would raise up a lawless one, a false object of reverence, who would even put himself above Gods law.

    Identifying

    theLawlessOne

    7

    Was Paul speaking of a single individual? No, for he states that this "man" was evident in Pauls day and would continue in existence until Jehovah destroyed him at this systems end. Thus, he has existed for many centuries. Obviously, no literal man has lived that long. So the expression "man of lawlessness" must stand for a body, or class, of people.

    8

    Who are they? The evidence shows that they are the body of proud, ambitious clergymen of Christendom, who over the centuries have set themselves up as a law unto themselves. This can be seen by the fact that there are thousands of different religions and sects in Christendom, each with its clergy, yet each conflicting with the others in some aspect of doctrine or practice. This divided state is a clear evidence that they do not follow Gods law. They cannot be from God. (Compare Micah 2:12; Mark 3:24; Romans 16:17; 1 Corinthians 1:10.) What all these religions have in common is that they do not hold fast to the Bibles teachings, having violated the rule: "Do not go beyond the things that are written."1 Corinthians 4:6; see also Matthew 15:3, 9, 14.

    9

    Thus, this lawless one is a composite person: the religious clergy of Christendom. All of them, whether popes, priests, patriarchs, or Protestant preachers, share responsibility for the religious sins of Christendom. They have exchanged the truths of God for pagan lies, teaching such unscriptural doctrines as immortality of the human soul, hellfire, purgatory, and Trinity. They are like the religious leaders to whom Jesus said: "You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. . . . He is a liar and the father of the lie." (John 8:44) Their practices also expose them as lawless, for they participate in activities that violate Gods laws. To such ones Jesus says: "Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness."Matthew 7:21-23.

    Elevating

    Themselves

    10

    History shows that those in this man of lawlessness class have displayed such pride and arrogance that they have actually dictated to rulers of the world. Under the pretext of the doctrine of the divine right of kings, the clergy have claimed to be the essential intermediary between the rulers and God. They have crowned and dethroned kings and emperors and have been able to turn the masses for or against rulers. In effect, they have said, as did the Jewish chief priests who rejected Jesus: "We have no king but Caesar." (John 19:15) Yet, Jesus clearly taught: "My kingdom is no part of this world."John 18:36.

    11

    To elevate themselves even more above the common people, this lawless class has adopted different garb, usually black. Further, they have adorned themselves with all kinds of imposing regalia, together with crowns, crosses, and miters. (Compare Matthew 23:5, 6.) But Jesus and his followers had no such garb; they dressed as did the common people. The clergy have also taken to themselves titles such as "Father," "Holy Father," "Reverend," "Most Reverend," "His Excellency," and "His Eminence," which add to their lifting themselves over everyone. Yet, Jesus taught regarding religious titles: "Do not call anyone your father on earth." (Matthew 23:9) Similarly, Elihu, in rebutting Jobs hypocritical comforters, said: "Let me not, please, show partiality to a man; and on an earthling man I shall not bestow a title."Job 32:21.

    12

    When Paul back in his day stated that the man of lawlessness had already begun his activity, he also said concerning those who reflect that ones lawless attitude: "For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. But their end shall be according to their works."2 Corinthians 11:13-15.

    Rebellion

    AgainstTrueWorship

    13

    Paul said that this man of lawlessness would develop along with apostasy. In fact, the first clue Paul gave as to the identity of this lawless class is that "the day of Jehovah [when Jehovah destroys this wicked system of things] . . . will not come unless the apostasy comes first." (2 Thessalonians 2:2, 3) But what is meant by "apostasy"? In this context, it does not mean just a lapse or a falling away due to spiritual weakness. The Greek word here used for "apostasy" meant, among other things, a "defection" or a "revolt." Several translations render it as "rebellion." William Barclays version states: "That day cannot come until the Great Rebellion has taken place." TheJerusalemBible calls it "the Great Revolt." Therefore, in the context of what Paul is discussing, "apostasy" means a revolt against true worship.

    14

    How did this apostasy, this rebellion, develop? At 2 Thessalonians 2:6, Paul wrote, regarding his day, about "the thing that acts as a restraint" on the lawless one. What was that? It was the restraining force of the apostles. Their presence, with their powerful gifts bestowed by holy spirit, prevented apostasy from then becoming an epidemic. (Acts 2:1-4; 1 Corinthians 12:28) But when the apostles had died, by about the end of the first century, the restraining brakes were removed.

    Unscriptural

    ClergyClassDevelops

    15

    The congregation that Jesus established developed during the first century under the guidance of elders (overseers) and ministerial servants. (Matthew 20:25-27; 1 Timothy 3:1-13; Titus 1:5-9) These were drawn from the congregation. They were capable spiritual men with no special theological training, just as Jesus had no such training. Indeed, his opponents wondered: "How does this man have a knowledge of letters, when he has not studied at the schools?" (John 7:15) And concerning the apostles, the religious rulers observed the same: "Now when they beheld the outspokenness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were men unlettered and ordinary, they got to wondering. And they began to recognize about them that they used to be with Jesus."Acts 4:13.

    16

    However, the apostasy brought in concepts derived from the Jewish clergy and eventually from pagan Romes religious setup. As time went by and the turning away from true faith took place, an unscriptural clergy class developed. A crowned pope began ruling over a college of cardinals, who in turn were drawn from hundreds of bishops and archbishops, who in turn were promoted from seminary-trained priests. Thus, not long after the first century, a mystic clergy class took over in Christendom. This class was not patterned after the first-century Christian elders and ministerial servants but was patterned after pagan religious systems.

    17

    As early as the third century C.E., ordinary believers had been relegated to the second-class status of laity. The apostate man of lawlessness gradually assumed the reins of power. This power was solidified during the reign of the Roman emperor Constantine, especially after the Council of Nicaea in 325 C.E. Then Church and State became welded together. Thus, the man of lawlessnessthe clergy of Christendombecame a centuries-long line of apostates in revolt against the true God, Jehovah. The laws and arrangements that they have followed are their own and not Gods.

    Pagan

    Teachings

    18

    The developing man of lawlessness also borrowed pagan teachings. For example, a mysterious, incomprehensible Trinitarian god was substituted for the One who says: "I am Jehovah. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give my own glory." "I am Jehovah, and there is no one else. With the exception of me there is no God." (Isaiah 42:8; 45:5) This substituting of human, even pagan, concepts for Gods truths was expanded to include a further blasphemy: the veneration of the Bibles humble Mary as Christendoms "Mother of God." Thus, the promoters of such false teachings, the clergy class, became the rankest of "the weeds" sown by Satan to try to choke out the fine seed sown by Christ.Matthew 13:36-39.

    19

    As schisms and rifts took place, Christendom fragmented into hundreds of religions and sects. But each new religion or sect, with few exceptions, retained its clergy-laity division. Thus, the man of lawlessness class has been perpetuated down to this day. And it still continues to set itself up above the common people with its distinctive garb and high-sounding titles. Clearly, Paul did not exaggerate when he said that the man of lawlessness class would glorify itself and elevate itself to a godlike position.

    The

    Papacy

    20

    An example of such glorification is that of the papacy of Rome. An ecclesiastical dictionary by Lucio Ferraris, published in Italy, describes the pope as "of such dignity and highness that he is not simply a man but, as it were, God, and the Vicar of God." His crown is a triple crown "as king of heaven, of earth and of hell." The same dictionary continues: "The pope is, as it were, God on earth, the only prince of the faithful of Christ, the greatest king of all kings." It adds: "The pope can sometimes counteract the divine law." Also, TheNewCatholicDictionary states of the pope: "His ambassadors have precedence over other members of the diplomatic body."

    21

    Unlike the disciples of Jesus, the pope often wears very elaborate garb and welcomes the adulation of humans. The pope allows people to bow to him, kiss his ring, and carry him on their shoulders in a special chair. What vanity popes have displayed over the centuries! A contrast indeed to the humble simplicity of Peter, who said to Cornelius, the Roman army officer who knelt at Peters feet to do obeisance to him: "Stand up, . . . I am only a man after all"! (Acts 10:25, 26, the Catholic JerusalemBible) And what a contrast to the angel who gave the apostle John the Revelation! John tried to bow down worshipfully to that angel, but the angel declared: "Be careful! Do not do that! All I am is a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who are prophets and of those who are observing the words of this scroll. Worship God."Revelation 22:8, 9.

    22

    Is this appraisal of the clergy class too strong? We can determine this by applying the rule that Jesus gave to identify false prophets: "By their fruits you will recognize them." (Matthew 7:15, 16) What, then, has been the fruitage of the clergy over the centuries and in our own 20th century? What will be the fate of this man of lawlessness, and who will share that fate? What responsibility do those who truly fear God have in regard to this lawless one? The following articles will discuss these points.

    Questions

    forReview:

    What is the man of lawlessness, and when did it become manifest?

    How does the Bible identify the author of this lawless class?

    How have the clergy elevated themselves above the people?

    What apostate teachings and practices were developed by the clergy?

    How does the attitude of popes contrast with that of Peter and an angel?

    [Study

    Questions]

    1, 2. Why is it vital that we identify the man of lawlessness?

    3. How does the Bible call our attention to the lawless one?

    4. Who is the originator and backer of the man of lawlessness?

    5. What fate awaits the lawless one and those who follow him?

    6. What further information does Paul give about the lawless one?

    7. Why do we conclude that Paul was not talking about one individual, and what does the man of lawlessness stand for?

    8. Who is the man of lawlessness, and what are some identifying features?

    9. What unscriptural beliefs has the lawless one substituted for Bible truths?

    10. What relationship has the lawless one had with political rulers?

    11. How have the clergy elevated themselves?

    12. Whom did Paul say the clergy were actually serving?

    13. What is the apostasy Paul foretold?

    14. When did the apostasy begin to develop in earnest?

    15. What arrangement was established by Jesus for the Christian congregation?

    16. How did the apostasy cause a deviation from the first-century Christian pattern for congregation organization?

    17. When, especially, was the lawless ones power solidified?

    18. What blasphemous pagan teachings did the lawless one adopt?

    19. How has Christendom fragmented down through the centuries, but what was perpetuated?

    20. How does a Catholic source describe the pope?

    21. Contrast the actions of the pope with those of Peter and an angel.

    22. By what Scriptural rule may the lawless one be identified?

    [Picture

    onpage14]

    The apostle Peter, unlike the popes, did not allow a human to do obeisance to him

    Edited by - Elsewhere on 18 September 2002 11:18:52

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    Yeah, right!

  • Darkhorse
    Darkhorse

    Ozzie, thanks for the reply.

    I checked out the link and read the 1st chapter of COC, I will purchase that book.

    Yes, I do ask many questions - I would have made a louzy JW. Probably would not have made it through too many bible studies because of my questioning - I think they would have given me the boot pretty quick, right?

    Have a wonderful day!

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    Matthew 15:3,9
    3 In reply he said to them: "Why is it YOU also overstep the commandment of God because of YOUR tradition? 9 It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines.

    Edited by - Elsewhere on 18 September 2002 11:26:52

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Hey, elsewhere, I think you're bing haunted by the ghost of Naeblis past. Your post at the top of the page is greek to me.

    Moving on tho the topic at hand, there are four possible states that a Dub may be in:

    1. Disfellowshipped: cast out of the congregation by a judicial committee

    2. Disassociated: Voluntarily and FORMALLY leaving the organzation, usually with a letter to that effect sent to the WTS. Included in this group are those "automatically considered disassociated" by engaging in a matter of conscience that runs counter to the WTS conscience-du-jour. Bulgarian blood transfusion recipients spring to mind.

    Persons of class 1 and 2 are shunned.

    3. Those who "simply leave the faith" without formal announcement of their intent.

    and the least desirable state of all, closest to the seventh circle of Hell,

    4. Active Dub

  • Sentinel
    Sentinel

    There is just no way we can keep up with their "new light". Isn't it so clear and understandable? NOT

    It's just as mixed up and confusing as ever. And, this is just with the "written" stuff. The oral teachings are just as paradoxical.

    I tried to be a good daughter and respect my mother (JW) and her right to believe as she so desires. I knew she could not discuss anything of a religious or spiritual nature with me because I am disassociated. I never tried to do that. For the past twelve years we have enjoyed a connection that bordered on getting crumbs from a table. But, I took what I could get. Living over 1,000 miles apart kept "her safe" from my terrible influence. (thinking for myself)

    Suddenly, in August, things changed again. She can't have ANYTHING TO DO WITH ME. Mind you, I am a good person. I am not an evil sinner.

    BUT, to the JW, anyone not practicing the faith of the WTBTS (after being baptised...at any age) we are evil. Those are the facts.

    The bible speaks of the "wicked man", the "unrighteous", the "lawless", the "rebellious", those who practice sins, such as drunkenness, stealing, or adultery. This also includes the "apostate" practicing revolt inside the congregation. The WTBTS has enhanced upon these labels, and have contrived their own meanings to suit their own means. The borg promotes the "teachings of men", whom the scriptures warned christians about.

    I guess I'm pretty much screwed, since I didn't just "walk away", I wrote letters to both my congregation and to the headquarters in NY. Although a group of elders visited me many months later and told me that I was always welcome to attend meetings and that I was NOT disfellowshipped...my mother has set about to destroy my reputation among all my friends in the congregation, so that they did not and do not feel comfortable speaking to me or associating with me. Why hasn't she ever been df'd for overstepping the bounds of her authority, and "taking the lead" over elders? I would not wish that upon her, but I do have to question it.

    Ahhhh, I don't think we can expect anything other than baffling, confusing comments by the borg. It's obvious they can't even keep track of what they write and say, or else, these are just part of the mind games they play with those on the inside. (Remember, they don't think we--on the outside-- are privy to this information anymore.)

    Do you know what happens to a blind man who is leading a blind man? I do. It's not very pretty.

    Sentinel/Karen

  • NotBlind
    NotBlind

    I think Elsewhere hit the nail on the head...

    The ole WTS is "couching" its words very carefully, trying to give the impression that their no-shun policy applies to the disassociated, when they're really talking about the inactive...

  • Darren
    Darren

    I think this is a really interesting topic.... because I have tried to speak to my family about this a number of times. Namely, can an ex-witness just be a normal person? Or will they always be labled an ex-witness?

    I disasocciated myself 2 years ago, which for me went that I DON'T WANT TO BE A WITNESS ANYMORE. What it doesn't mean is that I don't want to talk to my family and friends (extended family). However the winesses don't seem to grasp this very well, and it seems that forever I'll be labeled as an ex-jw rather than a normal person. They of course say that this is because I have known the 'truth' and have shunned it. But once again I make the point, just because I don't agree with the witnesses doesn't mean I deserve to be treated as an ememy the rest of my days. I guess this makes sense to all of us, but the witnesses will never understand.. unless they also leave.

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