Help in "Preaching Apostaphry"

by patio34 10 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  patio34

  Hi all,

  The title was from a thread recently that said since JWs have a ministry, do apostates have an apostrophy?

  Well, today out of the blue, a previous workmate called me at work. She stated that she had heard that I was no longer a JW. She herself was raised as a JW, but left as an adult. She asked me to meet with her to explain why I left. My take on it is that she's troubled that maybe it is the "truth," maybe Armageddon will come, a bit of conscience, etc. She apparently left, not because of any solid evidence, but just didn't want to do it.

  Now, I'm a complete atheist for now and left because of figuring out that the dinosaurs being carnivorous was the (one of the) fatal flaws in the Bible, hence also the JWs.

  But I don't want to scare her off nor overwhelm her with info. I'm meeting her Monday at noon to discuss this. I did tell her that anything I say is confidential because I don't want to be df'd. She agreed.

  Soooo, how would you handle this? Approach it from the flaws in the WT and its history, or the flaws in the Bible and its history? Or both? I don't want to launch into a half-hour sermon, but just briefly explain it. I don't feel as tho I have a "calling" to pull religious people & JWs out of their beliefs.

  What do you think?

  Pat

  P.S. Ironically, we have a temporary receptionist at work who is just a perfect worker we all raved about. And guess what we found out last week: she's a JW. But I've kept it from her what I am.
• 

  Satanus

  Maybe get her talking about herself. You might get a better idea of where to jump in. Become friends??

  SS
• 

  Quotes

  I agree with SS.

  Also, I would say you will have to first "knock down" the WT before you can knock down the bible in general.

  My website has some interesting stuff you can use, but since I deliberately don't include commentary, you and your frind will have to "connect the dots" on your own.

  http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/
• 

  truman

  Hi Pat,

  Sounds like it will be an interesting conversation. I guess everyone who has left,
  has their own personal "straw that broke the camel's back". For me, it was finding out that
  I had been manipulated by means of systematic and sophisticated mind control techniques.
  This broke the spell immediately, but it took a little longer to get to the stage of letting go
  of the doctrine. Ray Franz' books did that for me. If I was to talk to someone else like this,
  I would explain about mind control, and the quantifiable, identifiable methods the WTS
  utilizes. I think you are right about the danger of overwhelming a person such as your
  acquaintance. It would be easy to come off as much a fanatic against the JWs as they do
  when they sense a prospective convert.

  Mainly, I would recommend a couple of web sites, like 'freeminds', and a book, 'Crisis of 'Conscience', then be willing to talk some more, if they want to. This way, it lets the person make their own choices in the rate at which they digest what can be difficult material.

  Keep us posted on how it goes.

  I myself, have been debating about sending an anonymous letter to a sister from my cong. who was recently DF'd, telling her to look online for some comfort about her situation, but have not done it yet. I do have some reservations about inserting myself into someone elses situation,
  uninvited, in this case. But I would like to help.....

  truman
• 

  patio34

  Hi Saint Satan, That's the best approach--to get her to talk about herself so I can really know how to approach it. Thanks.

  Hi Quotes, your site is excellent and I may print out a couple of pertinent pages to just let her know what's available. Thanks for bringing it up.

  Hi Truman,

  I think you are right about the danger of overwhelming a person such as your
  acquaintance. It would be easy to come off as much a fanatic against the JWs as they do
  when they sense a prospective convert.

  That is sooo true. It's hard to contain our enthusiasm for all that we know. It's nice to hear from you. I hope you're well.

  Pat
• 

  gumby

  Approach it from the flaws in the WT and its history, or the flaws in the Bible and its history?

  I would approach pointing out the flaws with the Organisation first.....it's easier for one thing. As truman said...getting them to read COC is the best start.....or....INDEX OF WATCHTOWER ERRORS. This is a real eye opener for many to see flaws with the Borg and a good reference book.

  COC was also what made me realize what the Borg was all about. Good luck and please keep us posted on the results.
• 

  patio34

  Thanks Gumby, Crisis of Conscience is a great start for her. I'll print out a page from Amazon to show it to her. And you're right about the organization first because it's offensive to some to start with the Bible. Good point. I KNEW it'd be a good thing to ask for opinions...

  Pat
• 

  back2dafront

  Now, I'm a complete atheist for now and left because of figuring out that the dinosaurs being carnivorous was the (one of the) fatal flaws in the Bible, hence also the JWs.

  Could you expound on this point? Not sure I understand how the Dinosaurs eating meat shows a flaw in the Bible...???

  Thanks!

  Jason
• 

  waiting

  Hey Pat,

  Now, you wouldn't want to "stumble her out of The Truth" .....apostacy, now would you?

  When you & I left the WT, we did it for very different reasons. So the thought of asking her why she left, and then just asking her some questions seems the best way.

  I ran into a woman who da'd herself rather than be df'd for smoking - 4 years later, being shunned, she still believes it's The Truth and wants nothing to do with "angry apostates." It's all her fault, according to her. I politely reminded her that I am not an apostate - I'm just not going to the meetings.....and that she made herself an apostate by her disassociation.

  She laughed a little, and I tried to keep the conversation light. Many feelings and undercurrents were in the conversation. She wouldn't accept anything which could be interpreted as against the WT. Interestingly enough, I was with jw mil in parking lot yesterday. This shunned woman walked past & wouldn't make eye contact with either of us. Don't know which of us she was avoiding.

  Hope it goes well!

  waiting
• 

  patio34

  Hi Back2daFront,

  Well, according to my reasoning, it seems the Bible indicates that it was because of Adam's sin that nature became violent (carnivorous). Genesis 1:30 said all on earth ate green vegetation and that this was "in the beginning." Then Adam sinned. Then, there's the statement in Isaiah (sorry, don't have the reference) that in the coming paradise, all would again eat vegetation (the lion will eat straw, etc.). It seems to me that this is one of the fatal flaws because now it's known that dinosaurs existed millions of years before humans and any supposed sin on Adam's part would be irrlevant due to the carnivorous nature of many dinos. Even further back than that, there's prey and be preyed upon in all of nature.

  From that epiphany, I decided to start reading books on evolution written by real scientists, etc., and the rest of the WT theology (and even the Bible) fell like a house of cards.

  Hi Waiting, Thanks for the advice. I'll see what her position is first. I did print out some stuff from the net but won't give it to her unless it's appropriate. Besides, who cares? Really, it's not like I have to make converts.

  Pat