Futility of being right

by JWdaughter 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  JWdaughter

  So, on another thread, about Pluto, Grreat Teacher said something that speaks to my feelings about religon.

  "I've kinda been sad since Pluto has been demoted to dwarf planet.

  You talk about 9 planets and all the little kids at school will correct you real quick and tell you that now there are only 8 planets in the solar system!"

  Nothing in the universe has changed but the opinion of men. Some men. And because some men say there are only 8 planets (and kids agree!) ok, now there are 8.

  Nothing in the universe changed but someones opinion of what constitues a planet. Do I think Jesus died on a cross or a stake? Do I think we are saved by works or by faith? How do I figure end times chronology?

  Most every religious debate is pointless. What "I" think about any of it fundamentally doesnt matter if I am an asshole to the the people around me. And If someones ideas are so crazy that they are doing insane things, you couldn't change their ideas anyway. They are just nuts and deal with their actions appropriately. I like discussing religious ideas, but weighing it down with judgment and disrespect puts me off that particular pasttime.

  I think what got me going on this was the "little kids at school correct you real quick" comment. What ugly thing inside us has to always be RIGHT? Especially when it doesn't matter?

  I am actually a horrible person this way. I am so aware of this flaw of mine these days. I would like to blame it on JW thinking/upbringing,but its not just a JW thing. Its a character flaw that I think being a JW can exacerbate, but I haven't been a JW for over 30 years. REALLY, this is my own flaw that I need to deal with, but I am not even sure what it is and I don't know how to make that inclination go away. I am a lot better about shutting up (sometimes), but its like I'm fighting a natural instinct, like trying to make myself left handed. Its just what I do-I argue to prove I am right (I get out of the discussion when I am uncomfortable and I will not sleep to stay in one if I am enjoying it)

  This is not an attractive quality. Insights welcome.
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  Oubliette

  JWD, what an awesome thread! Thanks for starting it.

  This trait among humans does indeed rear its ugly head with great frequency.

  I know I've been guilty of it. As an educator I am consciously working on not only minimizing it in my own way of thinking and dealing with others, but also among my students.

  You might think that this is odd for a teacher. Aren't we supposed to teach kids to get "the right" answer? Sometimes, yes. But the real goal of an education is to teach students to think. Indeed, I would rather have them learn to think deeply and critically. This often means I need should be spending more time teaching them how to ask the right questions rather than how to simply regurgitate a memorized answer.

  I just finished reading an awesome thread on this subject by psychotherapist and counselor, Mel Schwartz L.C.S.W. He wrote, "Can you imagine the generative and exciting learning environment that would result from a class that rewarded asking the best questions? If you think about it, the most intriguing questions are those that don't offer simple answers. Even more, they drive our thinking into greater complexity and curiosity. This would be a most wonderful learning experience."

  I wholeheartedly agree with that sentiment and try to incorporate this approach in my classroom.

  Schwartz made quite of few other points on the subject that may resonate with you. You can read the full article here:

  Why Is It So Important to Be Right? - Accepting being incorrect without any loss or embarrassment.
  

  Enjoy!

  Oubliette
  
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  CalebInFloroda

  Part of the reason for what you are describing has to do with the fact that we live a world where being incorrect about something is equated with being or doing something wrong.

  Being incorrect or mistaken is not exactly the same thing as doing something wrong or being bad. But from childhood onward we are raised in a system where being correct is rewarded, but being mistaken or "getting it wrong" is frowned upon, even punished.

  I can remember being spanked badly for bringing home a failing grade. I look back at that and think: How ridiculous! I failed in the class not because I was a bad child or misbehaving. I actually failed because I didn't comprehend the material. I used to have a learning disorder when it came to numbers, much like dyslexia with reading. But back then they didn't know about this (most don't know about it today either). So teachers told my folks I was not paying attention in class or caring to do my work. It wasn't that. I really couldn't do it.

  Once my situation had been properly diagnosed and treated I could perform well on any math exam, especially in advanced forms of mathematics. But the experience left a scar that told me deep inside that if I ever made another bad grade, I was being a bad child, a bad human being. This stressed me out for the rest of my school days.

  So when it comes to ideologies or convictions, whether they be religious or not, we are in effect still acting like children. We want to be right because we believe that being mistaken is morally wrong in one way or another.

  We even "punish" those people we think have a mistaken view. We tease them, call them names, treat them badly. But for all we know this person may make claim to a conviction simply due to a mistake they made in judgment. They don't correct themselves because they, like you, think that if they are wrong about what they believe that this makes them in some way bad. No one goes around thinking they are bad or mistaken. We all believe or want to believe we are right, good, and enlightened.

  We argue because we are in some ways still defending the child in us that see challenges to our personal convictions as inciting us to be "bad children." We are not bad, we tell ourselves. We are good! So we resist because we want to keep acting like a good child, sometimes at the expense of opening our minds to evidence, reason, and logic. We want to fight, prove the other wrong, shame them, silence them, even destroy them because their existence challenges our inner child's desire to feel that we are not bad.

  It is wrong the way people treat others on this forum and in real life when you consider that people quickly ridicule the beliefs of someone who doesn't share their own. It's illogical because we don't know why the other person holds on to their convictions or exactly how the person understands the convictions. These types of behaviors are mere reactions, not thought-out responses.
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  Vidiot

  Being right feels good.

  Being wrong feels shitty.

  Some people will do anything to avoid feeling shitty, even if being right makes them look like assholes.
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  John Aquila

  I've kinda been sad since Pluto has been demoted to dwarf planet. Nothing in the universe has changed but the opinion of men. Some men. And because some men say there are only 8 planets, now there are 8.I would like to blame it on JW thinking/upbringing,but its not just a JW thing. Its a character flaw that I think being a JW can exacerbate

  Most every religious debate is pointless. What "I" think about any of it fundamentally doesnt matter if I am an asshole to the the people around me.

  Totally agree. When I first left the WT, I would listen to every single debate on every religious subject and take sides. Now I’m at the point where I really don’t care what other people believe. I don’t even care if JWs continue to be trapped in that cult. The door is open to anyone who wants to walk out. If they are happy being in, it’s not my concern anymore.

  
  

  Thanks for the demotion. I'm dwarf a planet now, huh!
  

  
  
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  JWdaughter

  Thanks for the insights and links. I am going to try to be aware and just listen more.
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  prologos

  If you are wrong often enough you will be dead , dead wrong. so, consider contrary opinions as help to steer the right course to avoid being wrong.

  To me the Pluto question is easy, the distance laws answer that. what I find more intriguing is the unfolding spectacle in Europe, where it is being decided what conduct code should prevail in a larger community.
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  Heaven

  Sooo... this is not exactly aligning with the topic here but... years ago a colleague of mine gave me a Pluto sticker.

  The caption on it read "100% Dog"

  Now, I think, any 'normal' female would have been highly insulted by this sticker.

  I thought it was rather humourous myself. I had to consider the source. He was an older Chinese gentleman and English was definitely not his strong suit.
  
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  Island Man

  The JW religion is all about being right and pointing out everyone else as being wrong. JWs make it seem like the smallest inaccurate belief about God or the bible makes you into a false worshiper doomed to destruction unless you get your facts correct.

  The most innocent and irrelevant inaccurate beliefs of another religion are cited by the JWs as evidence that they are a false religion that cannot possibly have God's favor. And what do JWs think about the JW religion's own falsehoods? As far as they're concerned, the JW religion has no falsehoods. They just get increasingly clarified understandings of the truth. Besides, they're just imperfect men, right? Jehovah sees the heart. Like I said on another forum:

  "Being a JW is like being a prisoner in a glass cell painted black so you can't clearly see that it's actually glass and, at the same time, being deceived into thinking that you're actually free and inside of a strong stone tower for your own protection and, at the same time, you're throwing stones through the bars of your cell at all other buildings outside which you imagine are made of glass."

  lol.
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  LisaRose

  I think it has something to do with our fragile self esteem, we want to always be right so we will not be judged by others, and so we can feel good about ourselves. I think it's quite normal, we all do it to a certain extent, but it's also a trap, because we avoid situations in which we might make a mistake or be wrong and it also causes a lot of friction with others because everyone else has to be right too. How much time and energy do we spend trying to prove we are right?

  I have been thinking about this a lot lately. I have had some experiences in the last year that were very painful to me. It forced me to think about myself in a different way. I came to the conclusion that I am often wrong, in fact sometimes I am an idiot. Of course this is not news to anyone who knows me, lol. But accepting this and seeing that it doesn't much matter has been very freeing.

  I think this is why you get so many flame wars on the internet. People will argue to the death before admitting they might have been wrong. It's why trolls flourish, they know how to push people's buttons and will keep doing so as long as people will respond to them. I find lately that I can just let it go. So what if someone criticized me or a post I made, so what if they are completely wrong, I can accept it and see that it makes very little difference in the overall scheme of things, I don't have to waste time proving anything.