I see little good left in WTS

by Amazing 18 Replies latest jw friends

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Jst2laws:

    You said, "So would it be wrong to accept the fact that the WTS, despite its flaws, has many good scriptural truths to share."

    I think most of us accept that the WTS has done some good, but as the years pass, I find that the good I thought they did is getting less and less, and more importantly, the harm caused is getting greater than I could possibly imagine.

    You continued, "Can we reject what they have pressed to the world: God has a name, His Kingdom is to solve man’s problems, the Earth is to become a paradise as God purposed, man will live endlessly on Earth as intended, those who died will return in a resurrection of the dead rather that burn in hell, and this good news is to be preached in all the earth."

    At this point in my life, after 25 years of being a JW and now an ex-JW, I find their message, its very root concepts, pure fantasy that may not necessarily God's will. For example:

    God's Name: The WTS is by no means the first to bring about the name Jehovah or Yahweh. But, as Jesus himself stated, God surrendered everything to him, including name recognition. So, the name Jehovah is far less essential in Christianity than the name Jesus Christ. Yet, I am no longer convinced that 'name' recognition or pronunciation is what God or Christ meant, but rather, the persons they are, and how we relate to them.

    God's Kingdom: I am convinced at this time that a literal Kingdom 'government' ruling from heaven that would replace human systems is not what the Bible teaches. I have no interest in an all-powerful central government where I am just some number in the data bank, and where I have to conform to some universal master plan of operation. Rather, to me God's Kingdom is what Jesus said it is, 'within us' working out the will of God. It is God's dominion in our hearts through the operation of His Spirit that brings us into His Kingdom. I think if God were truly interested in solving human governmental problems here on this planet, he would not have waited 6,000 years to get-around-to-it. Certainly, any claims of human experimentation with self-rule by trying out various forms of government ended no later than the fall of Rome. Also, nearly 100% of the human family has been totally unaware of any government experimentation process, and thus the message is really lost on the human race.

    Earthly Paradise: This is a nice sounding concept. But the fact that the WTS presents it is not unique. Other religions also believe in the concept. But, it is a concept that is hard to say that one does not want, thus forcing an issue that should not even exist. I could start a church tomorrow that says God will end all crime 2 years from now, and then boast at what a wonderful message I have from God and how He is using me. Then two years pass, but crime still exist. I say to my flock that the timing was wrong, but the message was right, so stick with me. I basically skirt the issue of false prophecy. In the same exact way, the false prophecies made by the WTS has not only caused disappointment and harm to its followers, but more importantly, they have aligned themselves with those condemned as not being from God. Deut. 18-20 - ... is a clear example of this. Therefore, when a religion is a clear false prophet, and an unrepentant one at that, then all its teachings become suspect, much the same as a false witness in court that gets discredited.

    Hellfire: This is a terrible teaching rooted in much superstition. And, the WTS is not the first, or only, to speak against this doctrine. Many, of not most, reasonable, mature, competent, adult Christians do not accept that 'Hell' is a literal place of fire. Those that do believe in this are either idiots or unwilling to be reasonable. So the WTS belief that when we die, we are really dead, is a correct view in my opinion, but, I see no reason to give the WTS any special Kudos for making this teaching central to their beliefs, any more than saying murder or stealing are wrong. It is a matter of common sense, not some special revelation.

    Preaching Good News: If you get a concordance and look up Good News, you will find that 'kingdom' is mentioned about 160 times, whereas 'gospel (good news)' is mentioned about 95 times. BUT, most fascinating is that the Gospel is only mentioned 5 times in the whole New Testament in connection with the Kingdom. All other references are about the Gospel of God, of Christ, of Salvation, etc. For such an all-important theme, it is lost in the Bible message. The places where Kingdom is used alone, that is without mentioning the Gospel, it is mostly about Kingdom of Heaven, and not about any rule here upon earth. All other mention of 'kingdom' are in illustrations, or the devil's kingdom, or national kingdoms, etc. The WTS holding this up as central to Christianity is stretching the Bible and Jesus' words where they do not fit.

    You continued, "With all its flaws, no one else is doing this internationally, staying out of politics and wars in each nation, except Jehovah's Witnesses."

    False. But, again, where is the Biblical requirement to do so? The WTS is not staying out of politics, as they recently signed a Concordat with the Italian Government elevating them to a special status wherein the WTS gets tax money that other churches do not, except for the Roman Catholic Church, of course. As for war, the Bible says that there is a time for peace and a time for war. Nothing was said by Peter to the Roman Army Officer, Cornelius about leaving the Army. So, this is another WTS forgery of a belief not supported in the Bible.

    You continued, "We may not fully understand what the kingdom is, may use God’s name to the extent we rob it of some due dignity, have pushed for holiness and righteousness and obedience to the point of overlooking faith in the ransom as the means to true righteousness, and most of all the leadership have become obsessed with their presumption of speaking for God. I’m embarrassed, but I step back and still see a people God it using, at least as a dragnet. (mat. 13:47-50)"

    Your honesty is appreciated, but I think to presume that God is using the WTS or its people is baseless. The message of the WTS is false or at best twisted, and because of their false prophecy, and seriously engaging in other wrong acts disqualifies them and anything that could be called God's organization. However, individual JWs may have favor with God, but that is for Him to judge, not me.

    You continued, "Who else is teaching so many of the basic truths World Wide?"

    Any group that has developed its central teachings can say the same sort of thing. I could start a church that says wearing Green is wrong. And, then, when I boast, I can say, "Well who else do we know that teaches it is wrong to wear Green, only my group is doing this all-important work. And, when people leave my group, what is the first thing you see them do? They start wearing Green, so that shows the devil has hot hold of them. The whole premise that the WTS is teaching 'basic' truths is flawed, and makes their claim irrelevant.

    You continued, "You don’t have to write and tell me they are all serving for the wrong motives and they are all indoctrinated. These problems exit but this is not so of all or I would not be here and you would not be sharpening your pencils to refute me."

    Of any positive aspect of the JW religion, the good sincere motives and intention is most admirable. Good motive and sincerity is not a significant problem for the average rank & file JW. The problem is that the majority of JWs are being misled. There are some who are not, and act carefully, and there are many in the leadership that clearly and irrefutably know that the WTS is false, but they either fell powerless to do anything, or they don't care.

    I think that the JW religion will eventually be forced to come to terms with what they truly are, as reality catches up to their fantasies. I hope and pray that when this happens, they will not lose faith in God or Christ as the veil is lifted and they see how they were duped. I am sure that the vast majority of JWs will be responsible. But, I fear that some will go nuts, and instead of hearing about school shootings, we will hear about nuts and fruitcakes who will cause harm in acts of revenge. So far, in the last 15 or 20 years, as people are flocking out of the JW religion, this has not happened. And I am very pleased that ex-JWs are acting so responsibly. - Simply Amazing

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns

    I would have to agree with you. About the only thing they have going for them is a "good feeling" and even that is in their imaginations.

    Fear keeps so many from looking elsewhere. Fear of men, fear of death, fear of life.

    And then there are the tired cliches: "Where else can we go?" "Who else is doing a global preaching work?" "Is there not enough good that outweighs the bad?" "What if they're right?" "Who else uses God's name?" "Who taught us all these truths?"

    Sometimes I can't believe how brilliant the scam is and how stupid I was not to see it.

    Path

  • VeniceIT
    VeniceIT

    "Any group that has developed its central teachings can say the same sort of thing. I could start a church that says wearing Green is wrong. And, then, when I boast, I can say, "Well who else do we know that teaches it is wrong to wear Green, only my group is doing this all-important work. And, when people leave my group, what is the first thing you see them do? They start wearing Green, so that shows the devil has hot hold of them. The whole premise that the WTS is teaching 'basic' truths is flawed, and makes their claim irrelevant."

    Wow, I love how you put that!!!! Really shows how silly there reasoning is, doesn't it!!!

    Venice

  • sf
    sf

    Hello,

    I've concluded to myself that the concept of...

    F=False

    E=Evidence

    A=Appearing

    R=Real

    sf, searching for the lost Xanadu class

    and a howdy ho to you TT, it joys me to "see"
    you once again, safe (to a degree)...with much love
    i say to you

  • sf
    sf

    ...is THE only the majority of jws live off of. It's positively Frightening.

  • Flip
    Flip

    :Sometimes I can't believe how brilliant the scam is and how stupid I was not to see it.

    Path

    Which explains why, the WTBTS will be as financially active for some time to come.

    In my case Path, I was born into the "Truth" and wasn't allowed the choice ‘…to see it’, however I did come to my senses eventually, much like yourself.

    Flip

  • expatbrit
    expatbrit

    Amazing:

    Great post!

    There was a lot of good in the WTS. Then we all left and came here...

    Expatbrit

  • AhHah
    AhHah

    Amazing and Path,

    Well stated! I had no conscious awareness of the realities of the JW teachings until shortly before I left. I was raised in it, taught not to question, and that probably has a lot to do with how long it took me (I am in my mid-forties). But still, I wonder why it took so long.

    Most of my family members are still very active. I can see how some are suffering under it, but they do not. So, I can only conclude that they feel more inclined to cope with the religion than with the alternatives. I have to accept and respect their individual decisions. I only wish for them that their decision could be based on the knowledge such as found in this excellent post. But, when they need to know, I imagine that they will find it, as I did.

    To be honest, the alternatives to a rigid belief system are not very comforting or reassuring in themselves, in spite of the sense of relief to be found when their chains are cast off. It can be difficult to admit to oneself for the first time that there are important questions about our existence whose answers cannot be proven.

    I can definitely understand the attraction to easy answers, even if it is a false sense of security. I know it felt very real to me when I believed. And, honestly, for a long time I was relatively happy to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I wasn't aware of problems that it was causing in my personality and my life, but I was aware of the benefits it brought, and I focused on those positive aspects. It was an ignorance to be sure, and it was a denial to be sure. But, just the same, I guess the reality must be that it suited me for as long as I chose to stay in it, although I use that word "chose" with some ambivalence, since I was taught that it was disloyal to God to doubt those men. It was still a cult, and therefore an abuse of trust and power. But the attraction of believing is very strong. That is why cults (and religions) will always exist and always exert power over others.

    I now find my comfort in the day to day joys of living and giving. I have a trust that there is much good in people and much that is good in the world. I truly believe that if the press spent equal time trying to cover all of the good and unselfish giving that is going on every day, there would literally never be any time left to report the selfishness and the criminal. To be sure, world crises are increasing and our existence as we know it is threatened. But that has been a part of human existence as long as we have recorded human history.

    We all seem to be connected, physically and spiritually to the universe and to each other, whether we are aware of it or not. Some seem to be much more in tune to this than others are. I suspect that we can all be more connected to the universe if we choose to be. There is a form of comfort that comes with this recognition. There is always, I believe, a certain degree of uncertainty, regardless of faith or beliefs.

    I believe that beliefs are helpful only to the degree that they illuminate universal truths, such as love, and harmful to the degree that they cause denial of these in our lives. I believe that Christ was probably very much in tune with them, in spite of the Judaistic and Pharisaical spin that his followers placed on his message, which, in my opinion, invalidates much of what he taught. In short, I believe that any belief system that would condemn those who disbelieve misses the true value of spirituality and therefore invalidates it. I believe that the part of us which is connected to the universe knows this deep down.

    So why do we have such a difficult time accepting life (and death) and the universe for what it is? Is it a simple fear of the unknown? Is the unknown truly knowable in this life? I know that the answers must transcend the limitations of organized Christianity and all other organized belief systems, even if those do contain some glimpses of universal truths. If I never find the answers to these questions, I will still attempt to live each day with a sense of the grand awe of this amazing universe that surrounds us, happy to be a part of it, even if just for today.

    AhHah

    Edited by - AhHah on 24 March 2001 19:27:19

  • Pathofthorns
  • RR
    RR

    Personally, I believe the Society started out with the Lord's best interest at heart. This can be seen from the early Russell era writings, where Christlikeness was stressed, where Jesus was given worship in both praise and song.

    Somehow the Judge took over and decided to use the Society for his own personal gain, many left, and he took advantage of those "babes" left behind to convert them to his way of thinking, knowing no better they went along with the program and recruited more for the cause.

    Today the Witnesses are a product of Rutherford and his way of thinking, that they are the one trure religion and all others are of the devil, isolating themselves from the outside world, they have sheltered themselves.

    Yes, the Society has done a lot of good, but this good was meant for them, such as the supreme court decisions on freedom of worship amd speech, personally, I think the Lord used them [since they had the enegery, resources and will to fight], for the benefit of his people world wide, we know in times past Jehovah used unbelievers to accomplish his purpose for the cause.

    Dos the Socxiety have Jehovahj's holy spirit? I think they are just riding on the waves of one hundred years ago, their spirit is running out, and they are just fighting to survive, I don't think it is a matter of trueth anymore, but a matter of survival. As I stated in another post, for the Society to make drastic changes and return to the scriptures, they will have to risk losing much in membership and finances, their not willing, they want their cake and be able to eat it to. They will lose, that will be their downfall!

    _______________
    Less Religion and more Jesus!

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