Depression and Dubs

by pincushion 10 Replies latest watchtower medical

pincushion

Since I have found this forum I have been doing a lot of online looking, particularily spying on what the Dubs have to say about all the negative attention they have been getting in the news of late and through the internet in forums such as this. I did a quick search on MSN communites and came across over 70 online JW communities. One particular posting on one community (#1 rated JW community on MSN if anyone desires to look it up) I read a message thread on depression. The header message went as follows..
"Like so many people in this system of things I am faced with an emotional and mental problem, one that I am learning so many of Jehovah's people have, DEPRESSION. Why? "
In the Congragation I was in...about 150 dubs, a large majority of the females suffered from depression including myself. I think to those of us who have seen the 'light', the reason behind the depression is obvious..I just find it interesting that a sister has to go anon on the internet to find out why others think there is so much depression within the system. Perhaps, she too is seeing the light...at least I hope so. Of course the majority of the replies to her was they are plagued by satans world and to hang in there because paradise is just around the corner. It irritates me to no end how they can overlook the stress given to them from the organization, the seclusion they are forced into to remain clean, the isolation in school while growing up yada yada...I hope no one minds me saying this..but to me they are their own satan...the qualifications they must sustain to remain pure in their Jahs image.
Then in this particular conversation I was reading it wsa brought up that Depression is an illness and the sooner people accept that, they will not look at others as freaks. So now its gone from Satans wrath to a medically treatable illness, with mention it is a chemical imbalance in the brain. Medically treatale illness and a chemical imbalance for sure...however in a lot of case..in fact most cases...something has to start the depression off. You can't tell me 3/4's of the congregation I was in all had a chemical imbalance. Sure maybe..I guess it could be possible...I good way to place blame without pointing a finger at themselves and the organization...I just wish they would wake up and smell the prozac!!
DJ

Hi Pincushion,
I remember too well. Living in fear, carrying heavy burdens, no one to talk to without fear of judgement. I remember looking at the people outside my windows who were laughing and talking and having fun and thinking, "Those evil people". I knew that I wasn't good enough for Jehovah but I managed to keep my head high and filled with the denial that self-righteousness brings. I was proud that I did not celebrate those pagan holidays who masqueraded as just a time to see your loved ones. I remember thinking that my depression was my adversary trying to defeat me because I was a believer. I remember feeling superior to the humans in the world because I had accurate knowledge yet I was drowning in lonliness and fear. I remember thinking that love was secondary and knowledge was first. I remember not wanting to exist because I had no joy.
It's really sad to think that those poor women are still in bondage and yet they are. I want to help them but they hate me. I want to love them and show them how to be free. I want to hold their hand while they tell me how they feel. I want to give them peace and joy and love and comfort. I want to cry with them over their losses. I want to laugh with them when they are set free.
love, dj
Swan

Dear Pincushion,
From what I read on depression, it is a chemical imbalance in the brain and there are drugs that can alleviate the symptoms, but it is more complex than that. Depression is also situational and/or can result from cognitive dysfunction (in otherwords, irrational thoughts and thinking patterns). All of this is cyclical. The stituation and improper thinking patterns beget the chemical imbalance which adds to the improper thinking etc. I don't know which came first in this chicken/egg scenario, but from what I understand, that is why meds and therapy are often prescribed together. It stops the cycle.
This is just a layperson's understanding of some of the literature and believe me I am no expert, so maybe a MS or MD can correct me if I'm wrong.
Tammy
Pistoff

I am not an expert on depression. However, I can tell you that if you are seriously depressed and a witness, you are at risk of death from it.
Here is why:
Even though we are now told that it's ok to be depressed, and that we can get treatment, most of the elders serving today are products of articles, ideas, mindsets that belong to the 70's era of the WT; that means that to them depression is mostly a result of not enough prayer, field service, and study. It is a symptom of a lack of faith. They will deny this, and will give lip service to the "worldly" view of depression, but deep down the org and it's elders are NOT supportive of or able to help depressed people. In my family, I have had 2 sons df'd while in SERIOUS depression; told both times that depression is not an excuse for wrongdoing. The backward approach to this idea leaves me speechless. The concept of mitigating factors is NOT allowed in the org, period.
If you are in serious or clinical depression, SEE A DOCTOR IMMEDIATELY.
And do NOT allow the elders, the magazines, the congregation, to make feel guilty or inadequate over this. It is the ORGANIZATION that is inadequate in this area.
God bless
pincushion

Thankyou for the replies...and thankyou even to the harrasing emails I was getting this AM from a person dwelling on the fact I used the word Prozac in a message, used in jest at that.
Anyways, I am very well aware as to how depression starts and how it is treated, I am just bewildered at the fact so many dubs suffer from depression. Of course the ratio of depression is 1 in 5 people will suffer from it in their lifetime. However, I have seen many Dub teens and those in early 20's suffer from it and I strongly believe it is the Organization and beliefs and traditions that bring on this early onset of depression. It makes me sad that the clear picture is not seen within the congregations. And to advice a depressed person NOT to get help is pure crazy.
Healing from depression is definately a need to change those irrational thoughts. What many people do not realise is that most of our thoughts and beliefs reflect the culture and society we live in, our religious background, and our upbringing. Sometimes people develop, owing to early childhood experiences and learning, nonsense or 'irrational' beliefs.
Meds certainly open the door to feeling better so one can work on the depression, therapy and talking about the reasons a person is depressed are the cure all.
Swan

I got this message in an email related to my earlier post.
Hello!
I just read your posting in which you write: "Depression is also situational and/or can result from cognitive dysfunction (in otherwords, irrational thoughts and thinking patterns)."
Could you be a bit more precise on what you mean by "irrational thought and thinking patterns" and what source you got this information from?
By the way are you member of JW?
Sincerly
Timo
Recognizing many years ago that I had a serious need for counseling and that prayer by the elders was not going to help my depression or my medical condition, I went to a counselor made available by a work plan provided by my employer. She recommended the book "Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy" by David D. Burns, MD to help me recognize the dysfunctional thoughts I was in the pattern of using. In the book Dr. Burns lists 10 different kinds of cognitive dysfunctions that many depressed people are guilty of. IMO, many of these thought patterns are found in Jehovah's Witnesses because the same kind of twisted reasoning is used in their literature.
Here, in a nutshell, is Dr. Burns list. Please refer to his book for a complete examination of these issues.
1. All-or-Nothing Thinking.
2. Overgeneralization.
3. Mental Filter.
4. Disqualifying the Positive.
5. Jumping to Conclusions.
a. Mind Reading
b. The Fortune Teller Error
6. Magnification (Catastrophizing) or Minimization
7. Emotional Reasoning
8. Should Statements
9. Labeling and Mislabeling
10. Personalization
Swan

Once again in an email, rather than a post to this board, I got a response from Mr. Timo Nentwig, whose email address is <[email protected]>.
Here is his original email to me:
From : Timo Nentwig <[email protected]>
Date : Sunday, September 22, 2002 6:20 AM
Subject: Jehovahs-Witness.com: Tenacious D - Fuck Her Gently
Hello!

I just read your posting in which you write: "Depression is also
situational and/or can result from cognitive dysfunction (in otherwords,
irrational thoughts and thinking patterns)."

Could you be a bit more precise on what you mean by "irrational thought
and thinking patterns" and what source you got this information from?

By the way are you member of JW?

Sincerly
Timo
To which I courteously replied in the post above and in this email referring to that post:

Good question. I have posted my reply on the board for you and the others to review.
Here is his reply:
From : Timo Nentwig <[email protected]>
Date : Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:54 PM
Subject: RE: My Reply Is Up Your intention was that Jehovah's Witnesses thinking is irrational,
fancifully and does make them sick because reality simply is different?

If so all religious people would have to become ill esp. shamans etc.

From the point of view of a medical doctor irrational and rational
thoughts both are actually chemistry in the brain.

I don't think that "irrational" thoughts make ill. But I might make you
ill I you force to think in a way that _you_ don't understand and think
of to be irrational, i.e. don't understanding your faith and don't
really believing in it but trying to make other people to not think so
about you - actually to psychologically rape yourself, you being the
raper and the raped one in one person. But in this case the only thing
which is "irrational" (and actually kind of sick) would be yourself.

From a theoretical point of view...
Mr. Nentwig,
Please address your replies, arguments, and baseless opinions to this board. I have explained what I meant by cognitive dysfunction and irrational thoughts and cited the source of Dr. Burns book like you asked me to in your previous email. Now please cite your source for this statement.
From the point of view of a medical doctor irrational and rational
thoughts both are actually chemistry in the brain.
If you have a problem with that, either take it up with Dr. Burns or do some real research to back up what are right now just your baseless opinions.
Please don't reply to me by email anymore. I find your emails cowardly, rude, and childish. Post all further replies to the board. All further emails to me by you will be deleted unread.
pincushion

Swan...Mr Tim emailed me also after my initial post. After his very persistant attitude got to me, and me wondering why he is emailing me privately and not responding on the theread, asking if I was a JW, and me not giving him a direct response I was called an idiot yada yada. Many presumptions were made on Tiny Timbo's part (I am quite sure his genitale is as small as his brain).
My challenge to you Timbo is to post directly to this thread with your thoughts. You seem to be good at running us down for our opinions but you are not willing to share yours to extent. Also if you choose to email me, your emails will go unopened to trash.
Big Tex

Creepy. Looks like a Bethelite is lurking around here. If this were a monster movie, I'd be the next one eaten . . . .
DanTheMan

I wouldn't give Timo's comments too much weight. Another desperate, "intelligent" JW who needs his occasional argument-winning fix to keep his Watchtower-justifying thought structures reinforced. Cognitive dissonance is a terrible thing.

Depression and Dubs

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