Dinah, guilty or not guilty

sableindian

In a publication called "My Book of Bible Stories" is the story of Dinah. It is implied that she is the start of the downfall of a nation and the corruption of her brothers. And that she went out to see girls she was not to go and see.

But who does the Bible blame and what is the story here? What, also, does it say about the ones who brought on the implication?

Let's peak into the book of Josephus. An historian used by Jehovah's Witnesses.

In Book 1 Chapter 21 verse 1 it states"...Now as the Shechemites were keeping a festival. Dina, who was the only daughter of Jacob, went into the city to see the finery of the women of that country."

I don't know, but I can go window-shopping without having to make friends with any of the people in the store. Call me crazy, but, hey, that's just me.

There are a couple of things wrong about this story. But biblically, there is a different story.

A story where Jehovah, Jesus, Jacob, Josephus, the brothers and Shechem never blame Dinah for the horrible things done to her or others.

Jacob made a covenant with Shechem and his father. They were not strangers.

And what about all those widows, fatherless, grandfatherless, etc. females left over? Check out Genesis 34:28,29 and 35:1-5 and see if Dinah had plenty of girl friends to hang out with now?

I guess somebody missed that part of the Bible story.

Now would it make sense to make a lesson of bad association and then have all the bad people just come and join in with the family? Wouldn't have made more sense to show her brother, Judah, with HIS bad associate who he hung out with and ended up going to a prostitute (so he thought)? Here is a classic case, Judah, off from home, (married mind you) hanging with Hiram his homey and they see a 'Canaanite' mama.

I always wondered why they picked Dina over Judah's wrong doing. (Genesis 38)

So you tell me. Was Dinah guilty or not guilty of starting all this...trouble?

Vivamus

How about this: The WT bible says that Dina was raped. Now, her father made her marry this guy, after he raped her?! How cruel is that???

Or, she wasn't raped, but willing, married the guy, who had enough heart for her to get himself circumcised at his age, along with all the other men in town. That's love, and than he is slaughtered by the girls brothers. How rude is that???

waiting

"The Red Tent" is just an excellent fictional book about Dinah - but based on the history of nomadic people - which is what her family was - sheepherders.

The WT holds Dinah out as a somewhat pathically misled young woman who wanted worldly association.....and then got raped. Her actions were supposedly the WHOLE problem. If she didn't want those "worldly friends". NONE of these killings would have taken place. Quite some reading we gave to our young children, eh?

Thanks for the good points, Sable.

waiting

Country Girl

It is definitely cruel, but the way of the world in lots of countries. A woman being raped can bring shame on her Father's family; so they are destroyed. That is why women are so closely closeted in many countries, so there is not opportunity for rape or misconduct. Amazing how much a piece of skin (the hymen) can mean to those people (men) who don't even possess one. If you don't have one, and you aren't married, then be gone! Off with your head! Who cares if she screamed or not... just the fact that she was out without her coverings, and out without a male escort PROVES she was inviting trouble, so she deserved it. Scary.. but true. Unfortunately, we still have people in the United States that think because a woman wears somewhat skimpy clothing that she is "asking" for it. No one deserves to be brutalized because of what they wear. This way, we are taking *all* responsibility away from the male and putting it solely on the female. We are infantilizing men when we have this attitude. It's sad.. sad.

Country Girl

cruzanheart

It may (or may not, since women were rarely mentioned in the Old Testament) be significant that nothing more is heard from Dinah after her brothers took her home after the massacre. Given the mentality of Middle Eastern culture regarding women, they might have devised their own punishment for her, since she was no longer marriageable.

Nina

Mulan

I also recommend The Red Tent. Great story, and very likely how it actually happened. Even the Bible says he loved Dinah...............she probably loved him too.

Interestingly, in this country, a girl under 16, who WILLINGLY has sex, can be said to have been raped. It's a word. Translating from Hebrew or Aramaic, to English, a lot can be lost in the process.

Who knows what really happened?

sableindian

Hi waiting,

I read your previous post about Dinah and the Red Tent. Heading for the library as we speak. I love historical novels. My favorite is Pillars of the Earth about the intrigue in the Catholic church and the royal family of England and France during the 11 or12th century. By Ken Follet.

Anyway, back to Dinah. I had a large talk with my kids and editted quite a few of the publictions I was given so that they would be truthful. But I talked hard and long with my sons more than to my daughters about Dinah. I did not want them to think that ANYTHING a young girl did would warrant them the liberty to do anything also.

As, I mentioned to another member, I wrote to Jehovah's Witnesses about Dinah. I think they told my husband to get 'control' of his family (meaning his wife) and poor worldly dear...she just doesn't know because she is ...worldly.

Keep in touch,

Qelilah

sableindian

Hi, Country girl (what country?)

I see Dinah as a bit of a tom boy. And how many young girls are just out playing or having fun. Minding their own business, no skimpy clothes, in fact, maybe a shepherd's outfit. A working outfit. And while going through her regular routine, she is looked at and wondered about in a sexual way. The first man I married I had no clue he liked me. He approached my parents and the ball began to roll. I was a tom boy and he was one of the guys in our group who did NOT go to VietNam. I was only 16. (I married at 17) And I was not thinking about anything feminine and definitely not yucky sex. (LOL) But this guy had been looking and thinking and plotting.

Your daughters may not be very feminine. Very athletic. Like to have fun with her girlfriends. Think kissing is yucky. But there is some goof, sitting around looking at her as she plays baseball, jumps rope, walks to the store in her jeans and tee shirt.

Do you really think it is the downfall of a woman when she dresses skimpy? Think...think

You know what I think? I think Shechem realized who Dinah was AFTER the fact. And he knew he was in BIG trouble. With HIS family and with DIANAH's. Love....HAH Just another Canaanite man with words dripping with honey. LOL

sableindian

Hi, Cruzanheart,

Dinah is the last person mentioned of Jacob's family who entered into the Egyptian part of Africa during Joseph's tenure.

Genesis 46:15 - (these are the sons of Leah, whom she bore to Jacob in Paddan-aram, together with his daughter Dinah; altogether his sons and his daughters numbered thirty-three).

Yep, the very last person. But, we see she survived and it does not seem she married or had children.

Probably when she just HEARD the word "husband" she said...."Husband?? Slowly I turned, step by step, inch by inch...."

sableindian

We have that word too. It is called statuatory (sp) rape. And his defiling her can also mean he did not go through the correct legal or traditional routine, which in this case caused Dinah (not Shechem) to be defiled. Anyway, it touched her all her life. She never married or had children.

I also wonder how the other women viewed the Jewish males and they traveled through the desert. Killers of their fathers, brothers, husbands, uncles, etc. Children remembering. Wives craving. All in mourning. Did they have a mourning period?

Will anyone comment also on Judah and HIS 'worldly' friend? Judah, the inheritor of the scepter.

You know, actually, these peole are real and not superhuman. I, in fact, like them a lot

Dinah, guilty or not guilty

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