"Were any of them Witnesses?"

by kenpodragon 25 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  plmkrzy

  I became like that myself when I was in the Borg,thinking only of the witnesses that were involved in a disaster,

  I also remember being that way, but for different reasons then what everyone else is expressing.

  I use to think of it because I thought of all witness's as "family" Therefore it was no different (for me) then asking if any of them were family members. Of course if we had blood relatives in a disaster, we would (or maybe not) try and get a hold of them to see if they were ok. Since that would not be probable, their being just members of the same faith, then it was only natural to ask, "Were any of them witness's"

  I do not ever recall a time in "my" life where I was ever a heartless uncaring cold bloodedbitch.

  plum.
• 

  kelsey007

  Might I suggest that one of the points dragon was making in his post is that the abuse issue is not just a jw issue. That ex-jws are still carrying the same "were they witnesses" stigma in dealing with child abuse issus.

  Just my thought.
• 

  blondie

  It is not improper for members/ex-members to focus on the problems in the religious group they are familiar with. SNAP focuses on Catholic groups; ex-Mormons focus on the LDS; and ex-JWS focus on the WTS. These groups also help each other where the issues overlap. Ex-JWs are more knowledgeable about what goes on in the WTS than the Catholic Church or the LDS. All there efforts contribute to the effort to end child abuse.
• 

  kelsey007

  Then, blondie, I would suggest that these organizations band together and bring their knowledge to washington and get these changes made. In no way am I against such support groups. Clearly much good can be done to assist each other in these forums. However, when we have a common thread- child abuse- that runs throughout these religious organizations a common voice in washington can be found that will have a positive effect in providing these groups with the legal tools to find positive results. That is, IF the real motivation is to aid the victims and effect a positive change. If the real objective is to bash or bring an organization to it's knees then the poor victims are not being given the Right voice and aid.
• 

  blondie

  kelsey, unless you can read hearts, and I can't, it is impossible to know what the motive is of any of those trying to end child abuse, whether it be Catholics, LDS, JWs, Baptists, etc.

  I have no doubt a very few might be less than altrustic, but my experience in working with abused children and groups supporting them that most have the best reasons. Those abused have a great deal of anger towards their abusers and those that have protected them from detection or punishment.

  I understand that SNAP has been working with Silentlambs. Why re-invent the wheel? SNAP has a lot of experience. Why not ask these groups what they are doing to get idea what is being done to get the legal authorities to deal with this? The first place to start is to make it public and keep it in the eyes of the public.

  It is very difficult to go public about one's own abuse and deal with disbelief by family members and friends. Or perhaps they do believe, but figure your pain is not as important as keeping a fake image of holiness before the public.

  I speak from actual experience and not theory. I work out my energies helping others recover and if possible, see to it that the abuser can no longer abuse anyone else. In my case, my abuser still roams the congregations of Jehovah's witnesses, looking for new victims because the spirit-anointed elders believed his protestations of remorse. He lied and has admitted that he lied to several of his JW children. But it is too much trouble for the elders to pursue it again. So kelsey, if you attend a JW congregation, I would be very careful, my abuser may be visiting.

  Philippians 1
  
  15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. [1] 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

  Edited by - Blondie on 28 September 2002 15:3:12
• 

  kenpodragon

  I still think the secret to all change in this matter, is to seek to work the system to the abuse victims advantage. Focus on the changing of laws, and you will stop groups like religions from harming their followers. Our bodies are out of the religion now, did we take our minds too? Love does not limit itself to just one select group.

  My thought

  Dragon

  "Help all the children"

  Edited by - kenpodragon on 28 September 2002 15:14:39
• 

  kelsey007

  Blondie I am not making accusations or imputing motive. I do question motive by what I see and hear. If all these support groups exist as you say, and many have more experience than silent lambs, and the child abuse problem still exist, as it does- then it seems only logical to me that the direction must be changed to effect the needed or desired changes. Lobby wachington- use the law- march at the capitol- e-mail our lawmakers- this is the tried and proven effective method. Marching against the leaders of an org- especially a a-political org like the jw's has little lasting impact. It has been done for over a century. Three generations of my family were JWs- I have been to bethal as was my uncle and dad. There is nothing to boycott in NY. And the WT cares not about the words of apostates.
• 

  kenpodragon

  Kelsey

  I do have to say, I did wonder why they did not march on Washington DC and give a speech from the Capital Building steps on how Congress needs to address the problem of abuse at the hands of religion. The Catholics would have been addressed too. I just happen to love our government and legal system and have done many things to use it to champion a cause. Focus on the laws!!! That is the real key.

  My thought

  Dragon

  "Who is proud to live in America where one voice can be heard, and one voice can make a difference"
• 

  blondie

  kelsey, how do you know that Silentlambs has not been encouraging people to contact lawmakers? That is why I suggest you contact them directly. How do you know they aren't lobbying Congress? I have seen a few posts on here where people have contacted lawmakers. It is hard to know what is being done without being part of it or talking to those who are (and posts on this DB are not enough to determine it). But it would not be good to assume that these things are not being done because you have not personally seen it or been informed of it.

  When ready for it, it can be helpful for people to tell those they have abused them what they think of them. Silentlambs feel that the WTS has been either been incompetent in dealing with the abuse issue or has knowingly allowed it to flourish. Believe me, in my case, several elders lied about many things and were forced to acknowledge their lies only because they would have been removed as elders if they had not. That doesn't give me much confidence in the likelihood that they won't lie again. Their lies caused several children to suffer unnecessary abuse which these elders have never apologized for to the abused. Unfortunately, my story is not unique among JWs. Many of these people would like a sincere apology.

  I am very familiar with how the governmental process works. I have been a part of it for over 30 years. Just because one has a good issue does not mean that lawmakers view it as important to them. Politics is a very selfish arena. Child abuse is a serious issue. There are many, many groups working on it. The sticking point with sexual abuse in religious settings is how much can the government interfere with religious matters because of the Bill of Rights in the US (I am not familiar with the UK and Canada in this area).

  I am sure that Silentlambs will not be making a weekly trek to 25 Columbia Heights. If they do it once a year, to keep the issue alive in regards to JWs, then that is their prerogative.

  I personally do not believe that marches change the minds of any large groups except in the negative publicity they get. Will it make the GB change their policies? Only to the extent that this make the government take a closer look at their practiced policies. I'm sure fewer elders will be telling abusers and their families not to go to law enforcement.

  Edited by - Blondie on 28 September 2002 15:53:10
• 

  plmkrzy

  I do have to say, I did wonder why they did not march on Washington DC and give a speech from the Capital Building steps on how Congress needs to address the problem of abuse at the hands of religion.

  Focus on the laws!!! That is the real key.

  Very good point.

  kelsey, how do you know that Silentlambs has not been encouraging people to contact lawmakers? That is why I suggest you contact them directly. How do you know they aren't lobbying Congress?

  If I may butt in here,

  I don't think anyone is accusing Silent Lambs of not encouraging everyone to contact lawmakers regarding child abuse. Of course they have, and several times over the past couple of years. At least the past year.

  The point is, as I see it, a march on Washington DC would clearly command much more media attention on the wide spread problem of child abuse.

  As it stands now, reporters see a lot of angry people attacking a centralized and limited area concerning child abuse.

  The WTS is far from equaling the Catholic Church in numbers, there is no comparison.