I wrote something about that accusation on some other thread.
Now, I didnt want to be rude or anything, Its just, that the accusations
are so incredible, they certainly change the whole picture!
Now, if they are two witnesses, who are willing to testify on court,
we certainly have a case against Ted Jaracz. And if he is such a
bastard, he must go to jail. If that is the case, the focus should be
put to this case, I mean, if Jaracz is found guilty of rape, there is no
way back for the Watchtower. They will lose all other lawsuits and
declare bankrupcy.
I appologise to anyone I may have hurt, it wasnt intentional, but this
thing is way beyond my imagination...
Ted Jaracz - the accused
by Nathan Natas 70 Replies latest jw experiences
-
izobcenec
-
hillary_step
Waiting,
I could not agree more.
Lady Lee,
Actually regarding her lawyers "allowing" her to spaek out publically - Has anyone considered that this was a test for her before they continue with a case. If she can stand in front of Bethel and make her allegations she will stand up in court - a trial by fire of sorts for the real thing to come later
I actually had not considered that this once off opportunity at which the press and media was invited, could actually have been a 'trial by fire' set up by her lawyer. If it is, he is even more irresponsible than I originally suggested and should be looking for work elsewhere. That would be no way to conduct such a serious case.
Best regards - HS
Edited by - hillary_step on 29 September 2002 22:0:8
-
UnDisfellowshipped
scumrat said:
and that poor bald witness who was attempting to enter the building for a tour, he got slammed with questions !!! The WT goons allowed that to happen too.
I can't wait to hear what he said to the Media!
-
Dia
This reminds me of another woman I knew long, long ago - Julie - who was perhaps psychotic (that does not mean 'lying') and suffering from repeated suicide attempts. At the ER, they knew her by name as soon as she walked in.
She complained of childhood sexual abuse at the hands of her JW father and others.
I just took it all in at the time. I'd forgotten about it, until now.
Could it be they purposefully induced disassociation? For sport?
Personally, I don't think it's really that hard to do, if you're that kind of evil, horrible, monster.
-
Nathan Natas
That gal with more "go" than the Energizer Bunny, our dear DungBeetle, has been working on transcribing the entire 50+ minutes that she taped. Here's a comment Bill Bowen made when he was handing out the first SilentLambs Awards:
"..this woman was afraid when she spoke to me to use her own telephone for fear of what the organization would to do to her. Now the progress of the Silentlambs organization over two years growth personal and spiritual..a person who has courageously stepped up and not only spoken out in court for victims of abuse but also spoken about her own abuse and has ... the media and contacted them vigourously to protect the children. That next person to receive this award is Pat Garza
. "Edited by - Nathan Natas on 29 September 2002 22:42:18
-
-
-
abbagail
Either IE v.5.1.5 is acting up, or something haywire is going on. Don't know why my post didn't take above. It wouldn't let me "edit" it either. So here goes again...
--------hillary_step wrote
I have of course known of this of accusation against TJ for a long while... I am trying to help in practical ways which very few know about to help the victims of such crimes... but some restraint and common-sense needs to be exercised by the people helping this person. ...my frown goes out to her lawyer and advisors.
Hi HS: If you have known about this for awhile, and you are working "behind the scenes" to help victims, etc., then I would think you more than any of us would know more about this. Would not Bill himself be one of her "advisors"? I wrote in another thread by JJrizo, why doesn't everyone who is so concerned, contact BILL FIRST with their concerns rather than criticizing publicly? Does everyone automatically assume Bill would allow an "off the wall" story be told at the BIGGEST silentlambs EVENT ever? I only met Bill for the first time at the March, but without even knowing him personally, I give him credit for having more brains than that.
As far as the attorney and also in reply to Devon's post who asked:
Does this have anything to do with the multi-million dollar lawsuit that attorney Kim Norris anounced at the march? She did say it was filed in Oregon.
Devon: I can only "ASSUME" the $3 MILLION dollar lawsuit being filed in OREGON, as publicly declared by Kim Norris, could very well be on behalf of Pat. But I do not know that for a fact. I am merely putting 2+2 together, as you are surmising also.
HS wrote:
In these emotionally charged situations it is common for the alleged victim to read from a prepared statement not to rely on prayer... Her lawyer and advisers imho was at fault in putting this person through such trauma. A written and carefully prepared statement would have gone a long way to unraveling what you call the 'suspicion' in the minds of many not at the march in New York.
Again, I would think Bill himself has been one of her "advisors," and probably for a long time at that. So is Bill at fault for putting Pat thru such trauma? Anyone with suspicions or concerns should contact Bill. As far as a prepared statement v. Pat speaking her story from her heart (without a written transcript), my thoughts would be this:
1. The purpose of the program/ceremony was for the victims to be able to experience the healing that comes from public expression of their stories, from their hearts. They were not on the witness stand in a court of law, nor were they necessarily there for the whim of the media. They were there for themselves, for the other victims, and to appeal to the WTS. If NO media had shown up, we would have been there anyway. It was not just about media.
2. Pat told her story as it came from her heart. And, btw, what is the problem with a friend, lawyer or not, praying with her beforehand to ask for strength and courage to speak publicly? Sheesh! Is prayer "not appropriate" when it concerns legal matters? It was NOT the lawyer putting her through "such trauma" as you say. The "trauma" was the abuse, and it takes courage to come out publicly with it. Pat WANTED to speak out. Why else would she have come to NY? Did she get really nervous about it beforehand, kind of like "stage fright"? Evidently so. Is that so hard to understand?
3. ALL the lambs told their stories first. Bill then presented the "Courage Awards" and more lambs and others went back up to the front of the crowd to accept their awards (none of them knew they were getting awards -- most were caught completely off-guard about that portion of the program, including Sheila!)
4. At the end of the ceremony/program is when Bill invited Kim Norris to the front to speak, and it was THEN the LAWYER/Kim Norris gave a resounding PUBLIC STATEMENT (whether she was reading from a transcript I do not remember, but I don't think she needed one). It was then Kim announced the $3 Million Dollar lawsuit that was being filed in OREGON. She finished by saying, "LET'S GO GET 'EM!" -- It was great! As I wrote above to Devon, I can only "ASSUME" the Oregon lawsuit is on behalf of Pat, but CANNOT say for a fact. Someone will have to ask Kim, or Bill, or Pat herself; or if I find out I will edit and add the info.Also, I would not jump to the conclusion that Kim Norris is a fly-by-night attorney who gives lousy advice. She is on the ball. Several of us spent all Thursday evening together with her. Also, she has been in on this for awhile, and a law firm would not jump into a case without knowing what they are getting into. (I did work for a civil trial attorney for 12 years. Contingency-fee-based plaintiff's attorneys are not going to waste their time on civil cases they do not think they have a GOOD CHANCE of WINNING.) I think everyone knows that. The costs alone would be prohibitive with expert witnesses needing to be paid up front, etc. etc. Also, keep in mind sex abuse lawsuits are not CRIMINAL lawsuits, but CIVIL lawsuits. Big difference in the evidence that is needed. (Remember the criminal case against OJ v. the civil case against OJ? Which case was "won"? The civil one.) I would also "assume" Kim and Bill have spent many conversations discussing this. HAVE FAITH PEOPLE! Sheesh!
Remember Grits, a handful of people were actually present...
A little more than a "handful." There were 125 people, men, women, children, families, who participated in the March and who were present, from a total of 22 states nationwide. 80 remained over for dinner at the Park Plaza Restaurant.
Black Man wrote: I tend to echo Hillary's thoughts on this. She's not getting good legal counsel. Accusations THAT serious should NEVER have been given to the public in that fashion. It makes her look like she's got ISSUES or is making it up. She needs to fire her lawyers and get a new set with better strategy.
OK. IF the $3 million lawsuit is on behalf of Pat, what BETTER strategy than for the victim to finally come out in public -- for the first time -- and tell her personal story; and then for the attorney to back it up by announcing the $3 million lawsuit? Sounds like great strategy to me, and right in front of the defendant's doorstep, to boot...
Also, maybe that is exactly why Pat gave her PERSONAL STORY FIRST from her HEART. And maybe that's why KIM, the ATTORNEY, gave the LEGAL POSITION later. Until we know otherwise, WHY jump to such critical conclusions re: the victim's story, her "advisors" and her "lawyers"? (I forget, that's what forums are for, eh?) No offense, but you guys are totally depressing!
Anyone with questions or concerns should GO STRAIGHT TO THE SOURCE, i.e., Write Bill. Write Kim Norris (Love & Norris Law Firm, she posts here as "Concerned Lawyer"). Write Pat.
scumrat wrote: Grits, It was rude for people to be walking off while Bill spoke but the Watchtower goons planned it that way, they came out right at the time the speeches were given, and that poor bald witness who was attempting to enter the building for a tour, he got slammed with questions !!!The WT goons allowed that to happen too. They had over 2 months to prepare for this.
I know human nature is what it is... people can't contain themselves... (have done it myself, so I'm no different than anybody). HOWEVER, just because the WT "goons" came out of the building, did not mean everybody had to run over there like people fleeing a fire. I mean, BILL/Lambs were STILL SPEAKING, and Bill did not stop the program and run over there himself. So if the goons came out, so what? Sorry, but I think everyone should have stayed put and showed respect for the program, the victims, Bill. The goons can wait. If it was that important, I'm sure Bill would have stopped the program and gone over there himself.
-----Wise observation, Lady Lee.
Nathan, thanks for the more detailed transcript. I'm sure more will be on its way as people get resettled back home and have the time.
Grits
-
abbagail
Nathan, thanks to you and Dungbeetle for supplying Bill's preface to presenting Pat with the award. I remember it now that I see his words about how fearful Pat was of using her own telephone. What he said did not surprise me. I guess people have to have experienced intimidation, paranoia and fear to be able to relate.
Grits
PS: THANK YOU SF for posting that trial transcript (or sentencing hearing transcript)! I don't recall ever seeing that before. The comments were excellent, by Bill, by Bruce Baker, by Pat. I loved the reference to Bush's words about the terrorists, "We will SMOKE 'EM OUT." Ted, put on your silk smoking jacket 'cuz the lambs are gonna 'smoke you out'!
Edited by - Grits on 29 September 2002 23:25:42
-
Dutchie
In most disciplines there are no hard and fast rules and the law is no exception. Allowing a victim to make a public statement cannot automatically be deemed the wrong thing to do and as we are not privy to all of the circumstances and manuvers that her lawyer is, we cannot say that her making such statement was "stupid".
If she were being tried for murdering someone and wanted to make a public declaration of her innocence I might agree with you that her statement would need be prepared because of the possibility that she might indict herself, but in cases like this an extermporaneous statement in the victim's own words carries much more weight and is not necessarily a bad thing, It might also serve to provoke the one accused to make his own public statement, a statement which might possibly be used against him in a court of law. In this day and age lawyers use the media all the time to promote their case and to gain sympathy.
What is amusing though is that people who are fully familiar with the lies and duplicity of the Watchtpower organization find it so hard to believe that this woman was abused by its leader. Mr. Jaracz is the most powerful member of a multimillion dollar corporation. Power corrupts.