I have heard a lot about disfellowship from forums, blogs & youtube clips. And all of them are real experiences from ex-jw. However i have never physically met an ex-jw before. I'm thinking of trying to get the active JWs to talk about their version of disfellowship. What do you guys think? What is best way to start? What would they probably say?
How to get JWs to talk about disfellowship?
by datto 10 Replies latest jw experiences
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truthseeker100
datto it depends on who you are. If your are newly associated with JWs I am sure they will explain it as a loving provision to get the wayward sheep back into the fold. They will read scriptures about not associating with disfelloshipped or unrepentant wrong doers "not even eating with such a person" to paraphrase.
I'll give an example ask them about a brother or sister that has a recurring addiction to cigarettes. They will explain that you are not supposed to associate or even talk to a sister or brother that has fallen of the wagon and gone back to cigarettes, family or not doesn't matter.
If you have been associated with witnesses for a longer period of time you should already know these things.
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OneEyedJoe
You might get a little better help if you relate some of your situation and what you're after. If you ask why people are disfellowshipped you'll probably get "unrepentant sin" as the answer, or sometimes a more specific answer being something to do with fornication, since the cult does a lot to sell this as the default reason for being DFed.
It also depends on who you ask and how much they know and how honest they are with themselves and with you. Most elders are probably aware on some level that being DFed isn't exclusively about unrepentant sin, and unrepentant sin doesn't always result in being DFed. But they're not likely to tell you that.
As for where to start, that really depends on where you want to end up. Like I said, if you're comfortable giving more information, you'll likely get more useful advice.
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freemindfade
Go read the jw.borg FAQ do witnesses shun former members. This will give you some insight into how the twisted mind of a jw works.
First of all the FAQ is clearly the result of the disfellowshipping criticism, however, the response is generally aimed at people who just sort of stop going to meetings and don't leave, or get in some kind of trouble. Its extremely deceptive through subtle manipulation.
They will tell you how its not bad, its loving, they will never call it what it is, shunning! To reference wayward pines when they murder someone for being a free thinker/trouble maker, they don't call it murder, its a "reckoning". Scientology, other cults, they all have their terminology that makes it palatable. We don't shun, we disfellowship. It has a different name, and in their minds the definition is not sadistic its love.
Its a sensitive subject so be careful. Jws have only been shunning about half their existence, something most modern dubs don't even know.
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datto
I'm not a JW and will never be lol. I consider myself as atheist. I have family members who are JW. They are quite active however they are still at learning stage where they are unable to answer some of my questions. Whenever i do my research, i usually source from the internet, then find a way to get their clarification. I think this would be the best way as I will not make any judgement based only on the internet (to be fair to them). I even join their WT meeting yesterday to see what's happening there. I have exchanged some phone numbers with the elders and probably will find out more from them -
freemindfade
Well then you are in a good position. You can speak to them, if one of us did it, its a thought crime.
There was recently a watchtower with some info on it, I would suggest reading that as well. the Study edition not public or simplified.
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015287
Why Disfellowshipping Is a Loving Provision
“WHEN I listened to the announcement that my son had been disfellowshipped, my whole world seemed to come to an end,” recalls Julian. “He was my oldest child, and we were very close; we did lots of things together. He had always been an exemplary son, and then suddenly he began behaving in a way that was unacceptable. My wife wept repeatedly, and I did not know how to console her. We kept asking ourselves if we had somehow failed as parents.”
How can it be said that disfellowshipping a Christian is a loving provision if it causes so much pain? What reasons do the Scriptures give for taking such drastic measures? And what exactly leads to a person’s being disfellowshipped?
TWO FACTORS THAT LEAD TO DISFELLOWSHIPPING
Two factors—which must coincide—result in the disfellowshipping of one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. First, a baptized Witness commits a serious sin. Second, he does not repent of his sin.
Although Jehovah does not demand perfection from us, he does have a standard of holiness that he expects his servants to meet. For example, Jehovah insists that we avoid such serious sins as sexual immorality, idolatry, thievery, extortion, murder, and spiritism.—1 Cor. 6:9, 10; Rev. 21:8.
Would you not agree that Jehovah’s clean standards are reasonable and that they serve to protect us? Who does not prefer to live among peaceful, decent people who can be trusted? We find such an environment among our spiritual brothers and sisters, thanks to the promise we make at the time of our dedication to God to live in harmony with the guidelines found in his Word.
But what if a baptized Christian commits a serious sin because of human weakness? Faithful servants of Jehovah in the past made such mistakes, yet God did not reject them outright. King David is a prime example. David committed adultery and murder; yet, the prophet Nathan informed him: “Jehovah . . . forgives your sin.”—2 Sam. 12:13.
God pardoned David’s sin because of David’s sincere repentance. (Ps. 32:1-5) Likewise, a servant of Jehovah today will be disfellowshipped only if he is unrepentant or continues to practice what is bad. (Acts 3:19; 26:20) If genuine repentance is not manifest to the elders who serve on a judicial committee, they must disfellowship the person.
At first, we may feel that the decision to disfellowship the wrongdoer is drastic or even unkind, especially if we have close ties to that person. Nevertheless, Jehovah’s Word gives us sound reasons for believing that such a decision is a loving one.
DISFELLOWSHIPPING CAN BENEFIT EVERYONE CONCERNED
Jesus pointed out that “wisdom is proved righteous by its results.” (Matt. 11:19, ftn.) A wise decision to disfellowship an unrepentant wrongdoer produces righteous results. Consider these three:
Disfellowshipping wrongdoers honors Jehovah’s name. Since we bear the name of Jehovah, our behavior inevitably reflects on his name. (Isa. 43:10) Just as a son’s conduct can bring either honor or reproach on his parents, so people’s feelings toward Jehovah will depend to some extent on the good or bad example they observe in his name people. God’s good name is upheld if the people who bear that name make Jehovah’s moral standard their own. The situation was somewhat similar in Ezekiel’s time when people of the nations closely associated the name of Jehovah with the Jews.—Ezek. 36:19-23.
We would bring reproach on God’s holy name if we practiced immorality. The apostle Peter counseled Christians: “As obedient children, stop being molded by the desires you formerly had in your ignorance, but like the Holy One who called you, become holy yourselves in all your conduct, for it is written: ‘You must be holy, because I am holy.’” (1 Pet. 1:14-16) Clean, holy conduct brings honor to God’s name.
If one of Jehovah’s Witnesses practices what is bad, however, it is likely that friends and acquaintances will become aware of this. The disfellowshipping act shows that Jehovah has a clean people who adhere to Scriptural guidelines in order to maintain that holiness. A stranger once came to a meeting at a Kingdom Hall in Switzerland and said that he wanted to become a member of the congregation. His sister had been disfellowshipped for immorality. He said that he wanted to join an organization that “does not tolerate bad conduct.”
Disfellowshipping protects the clean, Christian congregation. The apostle Paul warned the Corinthians of the danger of allowing willful sinners to remain in their midst. He compared the bad influence of such ones to that of leaven that causes a whole lump of dough to rise. “A little leaven ferments the whole batch of dough,” he noted. He then counseled them: “Remove the wicked person from among yourselves.”—1 Cor. 5:6, 11-13.
Apparently, “the wicked person” mentioned by Paul blatantly practiced immorality. And other congregation members had even begun to justify his conduct. (1 Cor. 5:1, 2) If such a gross sin had been condoned, other Christians might have felt inclined to follow the immoral customs of the licentious city in which they lived. Overlooking willful sins encourages a lax attitude toward divine standards. (Eccl. 8:11) Furthermore, unrepentant sinners could become “rocks hidden below water” and shipwreck the faith of others in the congregation.—Jude 4, 12.
Disfellowshipping may bring the wrongdoer to his senses. Jesus once spoke of a young man who left his father’s home and squandered his inheritance on a life of debauchery. The prodigal son learned the hard way that life outside his father’s home was empty and heartless. The son finally came to his senses, repented, and took the initiative to return to his family. (Luke 15:11-24) Jesus’ description of the loving father who rejoiced at his son’s change of heart helps us understand Jehovah’s feelings. “I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that someone wicked changes his way and keeps living,” he assures us.—Ezek. 33:11.
Likewise, disfellowshipped ones who are no longer members of the Christian congregation—their spiritual family—may come to realize what they have lost. The bitter fruits of their sinful course, together with the memories of happier days when they enjoyed a good relationship with Jehovah and his people, could bring them to their senses.
Love and firmness are needed to produce the desired result. “Should the righteous one strike me, it would be an act of loyal love,” said the psalmist David, and “should he reprove me, it would be like oil on my head.” (Ps. 141:5) To illustrate: Imagine a hiker who succumbs to exhaustion on a cold winter day. He begins to suffer from hypothermia, and he feels drowsy. If he falls asleep in the snow, he will die. While waiting for a rescue party, his companion occasionally slaps him in the face to keep him awake. The slap may sting, but it could well save his life. Similarly, David recognized that a righteous person might need to give him painful correction for his own good.
In many cases, disfellowshipping provides the discipline the erring one needs. After some ten years, Julian’s son, mentioned at the outset, cleaned up his life, returned to the congregation, and now serves as an elder. “Being disfellowshipped brought me face-to-face with the consequences of my lifestyle,” he admits. “I needed that sort of discipline.”—Heb. 12:7-11.
THE LOVING WAY TO DEAL WITH DISFELLOWSHIPPED ONES
True, disfellowshipping is a spiritual tragedy, but the tragedy need not become an unmitigated disaster. All of us play a role in making sure that the disfellowshipping serves its purpose.
Efforts are made to help repentant ones return to Jehovah
Elders who have the sad task of communicating a disfellowshipping decision strive to reflect Jehovah’s love. When informing the person of their decision, they kindly and clearly explain the steps he needs to take to be reinstated in the congregation. For the sake of reminding disfellowshipped ones of how they can return to Jehovah, elders may periodically visit those who have given some evidence of changing their ways.*
Family members can show love for the congregation and the erring one by respecting the disfellowshipping decision. “He was still my son,” explains Julian, “but his lifestyle had put up a barrier between us.”
All in the congregation can show principled love by avoiding contact and conversation with the disfellowshipped person. (1 Cor. 5:11; 2 John 10, 11) They thus reinforce the discipline that Jehovah has given him through the elders. Furthermore, they can give extra love and support to the family of the disfellowshipped one, who suffer considerably and who should not be made to feel that they too are excluded from association with fellow believers.—Rom. 12:13, 15.
“Disfellowshipping is an arrangement that we need, one that helps us live according to Jehovah’s standards,” Julian concludes. “In the long run, despite the pain, it brings good results. Had I been tolerant of my son’s bad conduct, he would never have recovered.”
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OneEyedJoe
I also strongly suggest that you look into Steven Hassan's books on cult mind control. This will help you avoid some of the common mistakes that people make when a loved one is first entering a cult. The first thing cultists typically do is prime the potential recruit to expect family members to object and/or call it a cult because Satan is using them to test their faith. If you do that, you'll only drive them further in. It looks like you've done a good job thus far, but it would probably help to understand fully the psychological mechanisms at play here.
Good luck, sir.
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FayeDunaway
It's not only for an 'act of sin' that they will shun. If someone decides they no longer agree with the witnesses and dares to go to another church, they will also be shunned. They may call it 'disassociation' in this case. But if you are a baptized witness, you are not allowed to ever, ever change your mind.
Some may be automatically 'disassociated' or others might choose to write a letter of disassociation. If someone is disassociated they lose all family and friends who are witnesses.
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Giordano
You can ask them why the JW's encourage a bible study to leave their church but if that bible study get's baptized into the JW's and latter decides to return to their old church or another church they would be shunned?
Why do you have 32 differing sin's that can be used to DF a person when the bible just mentions 5 or 6?
Why didn't Jesus tell his followers to shun sinner's?
Why would you mirror such strange religions like the Amish, Mormons and Scientologists in shunning for life?
When a person's Christian conscience no longer accepts the JW version why are they lumped together with DFed murderer's, criminals, pedophiles, adulterers by staying that 'So and So is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses?'
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DesirousOfChange
I also strongly suggest that you look into Steven Hassan's books on cult mind control.
Yes! YES!! Y E S !!!
I was too busy to bother to read "Combatting Cult Mind Control" for a long time, but once I read it, it was sooooo clear that WTS/JWs follow the Cult 101 Operation Plan perfectly. They don't miss a lick when it comes to operating a cult.
I was shocked, because Hassan was describing the Moonies. Just replace "Moonies" with "JWs" and there you have it.
As a reminder: It's a cult.
Doc
