A Question for the Males on the Board

by teenyuck 25 Replies latest jw friends

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  teenyuck

  As I went about my wifely duties today, I had a thought and would like the imput from some former brothers and/or elders, MS, PO, CO's.

  Since leaving the Borg, has the way you view your wife/companion/daughter/sister/mother changed? Let me elaborate.

  While being brought up a dub, I was taught that women were in subjection. You, as men, were taught that you were superior.

  How has this shaped your attituted towards women now? Would you/could you be supervised by a woman now? Do you now think of your wife as your equal? Do you still harbor thoughts that the dubs had it right; that women are weaker/more emotional/unable to make a decision?

  Do you share decision making with your wife or expect that your opinion is the most important?

  I would appreciate some feedback and please be honest.
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  Southland

  I never bought into the woman is to be in subjection to man. I've always treated woman as equals. Different, but equals.
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  Francois

  Me too. I never bought the subjugation bullshit. And I knew plenty of married elders that were more henpecked than Caspar Milquetoast.

  The entire subjection business is just more tribalistic crap inherited from the old testament and the JWs inability to see beyond the end of their noses. Women in the time of Abraham were chattel, not much more valuable than sheep and goats. And that nonsense was brought wholesale into the dull minds of WT "leaders."

  We have suffered as a civilization because women have not had a voice in international relations, and in a similiar manner, we have suffered in our individual societies for the same reason.

  I don't find men to be superior in their thinking or reasoning abilities than women. I note that more men are in jail than woman, proving that women have got more sense than men.

  I really feel that for any relationship to work, there must be mutual respect and honor. Any civilization in which one sex, either sex, dominates another on the basis of that sex can hardly be said to have emerged from barbarism. And that's what bothers me about feminism today. Feminists don't want equality, they want hegemony; and that's as bad as what we have now. Matriarchy is no better than patriarchy.

  And I'd be willing to be that Jesus had a corps of women apostles who were as important as the men. Of course, the men, being the ones with educations and the ability to write, conveniently didn't write about the important role of women in the birth and development of Christianity. It had to be pretty much hidden anyway, since Christianity started as a sect within Judhism.

  But who gives a shit what I think?

  francois
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  Elsewhere

  teenyuck, it is not appropriate for you to be speaking in the congregation like that!!! Where is your head covering???? [Pulling out paper towel] Here put this on so you won't be shamed by your uncovered head.
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  ballistic

  I must admit, I have been let down by having a woman boss. Hopefully, this was just a one-off nightmare.
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  unclebruce

  Geez, I'd need a week or three to psyco-anal-ise myselfish on that one .. teenyuk.

  I found "taking the lead" over sisters easy .. i mean they're trained to like it aren't they? lol

  unclebruce who recons you can't subjigate a woman against her will .. can ya?

  Hey Francoice: I'd give a bucket of shit for your thoughts anyday!

  Edited by - unclebruce on 3 October 2002 20:37:48
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  LittleOnes

  Not being brought up a dub, I believe women are equal to men. Many of my fathers generation don't belive it though. For example: He doesn't believe women should be in police work or fire fighting. Sexist pig, sorry dad
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  JosephMalik

  teenyuck,

  It took me a few years to finally understand this but women are equal in the faith. They can pray, hold position and teach equally with men. The problem was the way that Paul wrote and the way his letters are misinterpreted. There were clues in the way our Lord treated women but it looked like Paul supported the Jewish view of women. I finally saw how he was defending women against them by responding to their letters and put together a brief article on the subject.

  Joseph
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  kenpodragon

  My wife is equal to me, and sometimes even in charge. ;) Of course, she was before too. I just acted like I was. LOL

  My thought

  Dragon
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  JWinSF

  First off, some of the roles that you mentioned for females [wife, significant female other] I don't relate to, being a gay man. However, I can address the issue as it relates to my grandmother [deceased while I was still a JW] mother [deceased after I left the JWs], sister, and niece. Also, female bosses as well.

  While I was still a JW, the hard-ass attitude of the JW teachings regarding subjection of females really irked me. I remember one incident while I was a JW elder at a Circuit Assembly in the late 70s. My background was accounting/finance. My sister also was very business oriented, having been a bookkeeper as well as a statistical typist back in the 60s and 70s. I was in charge of the accounts and as such enlisted the aid of my sister in counting the money. Whoa!!! was that a problem for some JWs. They complained to the PO in my congregation and he said in essence that it wasn't fitting for my sister to be doing a job "obviously" meant for a brother. Of course, he didn't see any problem with his wife being a typist for the Assembly and seeing many confidential matters as that was "just" a secretary. I had to comply, but absolutely hated the stupidity of the Organization. I always had a problem with the "down with sisters" attitude which was always obviously or subliminally communicated to the congregation members both verbally and in print.

  I also loathed any Assembly/Convention parts where some sister was featured for having been abused in all manner of ways and staying "true" to her husband just so "that in time, he may come around". BULLSHIT!!!

  I believe that in part my attitude towards women [i.e., not feeling that I nor any other male was superior] while not verbally promulgated by me was sensed by the sisters in the Congregations that I attended. They often would approach me because they knew that I would listen and not be unfeeling or unsympathetic. Perhaps because I was dealing with my own issues of trying to fight my being homosexual, and of course not being able to speak about it, made me more sensitive towards females not being understand or appreciated.

  Anyhow, for me, it was no real change after I left the JWs. In fact, I felt so much more free to give credit to women where credit was due.

  As far as having a female boss, I don't believe that would be a problem. However, while I was still a JW, I did have a female boss who was one really messed up looney tune. Literally EVERYONE in my department felt the same way about her, male or female. So, I've been somewhat "scarred" by that experience. But, I don't really think that should the condition arise as to my reporting to a woman that I would have a problem with it.

  JohnWWirtanen