Only time will tell

by kenpodragon 10 Replies latest jw friends

  • kenpodragon
    kenpodragon

    So many times when I was in field service, I would run across people who wanted to argue scripture. Some were pretty good, they knew their stuff and we would spend hours going over this point and that point. It was some times, kind of educational on both sides, but more often then not ... it was a waste of two hours. Mainly because I was a stubborn Jehovah's Witness and the householder was stubborn with his beliefs. I remember many conversations ending with both thinking we were still more right then the other. We would end with some statement like "Only time will tell." The reason I would say this, was I felt one day this man would see the Great Tribulation and Armageddon and would know I was right and see his stubbornness burn him. When I think back and read about the history of the Watchtower, I see all sorts of events happening like this. Where people were debating the Bible. Each looking up this point, and then countering with another point. Back and forth it would go like a tennis match, with the ball being hit into the opponent direction and then hit back a moment later. What I notice though, is that many of these past Witnesses felt that they would be justified in their stance one day, because "time would tell" and thus they had a smug look of "your going to get it in the end." So what happened to all these men who debated, and what happened to me? Well time went on, first days and then weeks. Then as the weeks piled up, years went by and then decades. Soon these men that debated with fire in the heart, were leaving this world as old men. They did not have anymore life to give, and their debating days had reached their end. . The end they thought would hit soon, was now a warning they had been sounding for their entire wasted life. It might have been 30 years or maybe even 60 years, but in the end, "time did tell" something. What was that? It told us that these men saying the end was near, and saying that the scriptures said this and that, to the point that they spent a life time debating it ... "Only time will tell", and it has, these men were wrong. They took some ancient writing and cut it into little pieces to fit their beliefs and put a timetable on it, and in the end they grew old and died. They debated with a passion for their God, but in reality they wasted the life they had. What about me, what took me from a Pioneer and Elder to someone who left. Well I think my example is common today. You see a lot of people get raised in the religion, or converted to it in recent years, with the passion that the days are numbered. We think that we need to do as much as possible and fight the good fight. As we do this, we start to see our own years passing, while we see these older men that talk about preaching for 50 years. Our eyes start opening a little bit, and we realize this message we think is so important and timely, is something that millions have wasted years preaching. Many like myself looked at these old men, and their wasted life and wondered, "What is their time telling me?" The answer for some might have been fear, not knowing what to do. For me, it was "learn from another's mistake and get out!" Thus, the answer to why I am no longer go out in field service debating the Bible with this householder and that preacher. I am actually living my days, and enjoying my moments. I feel like I found what "time" was suppose to tell me, and I am happy that others have as well. I do have one sadness though. That is that so many wasted years have and still pass with those who have not figured this out in the Kingdom Halls. Yes, time told me something alright and it was loud and clear "get a real life, and stop wasting this one" My thought Dragon

    Edited by - kenpodragon on 7 October 2002 14:3:37

  • Navigator
    Navigator

    Well said Dragon! Living in the now is what it is all about. Focusing on the past and fearing for the future is the way that our ego self (Satan?) keeps us distracted from waking up to who and what we really are. Don't regret the time you spent, however. You apparently learned more than you realized at the time. The Holy Spirit is sneaky that way.

  • grace4u
    grace4u

    kenpo, your thought please-

    I have never been a JW, but my sister and her family are. Should I keep my mouth shut whenever we are around each other? Should I keep quiet about the truth of the organization? Should I never bring up false things about the JW's? She gets very mad at me and won't speak to me for many months. Whenever I do bring up anything of that sort, your right, it turns into a two hour debate. But, I want her out of there so bad, it's hard not to say anything! Should I keep quiet for the sake of sisterhood and watch her suffocate herself for years?? Just need some thoughts.

    By the way, do you think that any of those debates you had with householders ever got you to thinking, and actually led you to wonder if you WERE 100% sure? That maybe they had a point to whatever it was you were debating.

    I love your posts, and look for them whenever I sign in. Thanks for all the insight you have.

    grace4u

  • kenpodragon
    kenpodragon

    I have asked that question to myself many times "should I enlighten the family members, still in, with the real truth?" The answer though that seems to always come back though, "Is it worth risking your relationship?" and I don't think it is. You see, they see their beliefs as so personal and so important that any comment against them raises a thought of "fleeing the person who brought them up." I have found that by living a good life, and being a good person, while not being a Witnesses. Is the best tool for getting them to see the light of what is really happening.

    As for the debates, none of them really did anything. I always walked away feeling I was right and they were wrong. Often, it would cause me to research the Watchtower information deeper and deeper and thus burying my mind deeper in the confusion of the cult.

    I hope this helped. Just remember to win them over them with love!

    Take Care

    Dragon

    Edited by - kenpodragon on 7 October 2002 14:20:2

  • grace4u
    grace4u

    Dragon- thanks.

    I will try to hold back. It is very hard. But, bringing up the truth isn't working, so I guess I need to just keep it all inside. Hopefully, like you said, she will be able to see "something" in my life as I live it well, and above all, show her the love I have for her.

    kenpo--as in a type of karate??

    grace4u

  • kenpodragon
    kenpodragon

    Kenpo = Kenpo Karate ... Yes

    I have a black belt in Kenpo Karate. I normally just like the name "Dragon" on boards, but that was taken so I did kenpodragon instead, and it just stuck. Some people think my name is "ken" :)

    Take Care

    Dragon

  • Beck_Melbourne
    Beck_Melbourne

    Kenpo...its threads like this why I likes ya so much.

    You said two things that really jumped out at me:

    For me, it was "learn from another's mistake and get out!"

    and

    Yes, time told me something alright and it was loud and clear "get a real life, and stop wasting this one"

    I share your reasoning. I have an 80plus year old jw grandmother who was never meant to grow old and die...how tragic...all those years of diligent field service and regular meeting attendance in the hope that their service or acts of goodness would reward them with ever lasting life on a paradise earth. Ones like my grandmother wasted away their lives preaching about an end which never came...and they failed to recognise the signs that they have been misled. Ones like you and I recognised these signs...and here we are.

    If I made an attempt to tell my grandmother that she has been misled all these years, she would only say 'oh well, i'm too old to change'. How sad is that.

    grace4u - please forgive me for sticking my nose in...I can't help but relate your situation to my own. When I left the JW, I was shunned by my JW relatives, the one that hurt the most was my sister, as we were very close. 12 months after I had left, I decided to contact her via ICQ. We chatted online as though nothing had happened...and she seemed relieved to know that we were in touch again....and since we were only communicating online, she didn't feel guilty.

    At that time, I badly wanted her out of the JW so that we could resume our friendship and see each other again, I missed her a lot, but I had accepted that things were the way they were.

    Long story short....she is now inactive...we see each other often, we email daily and she is enjoying her new-found freedom from the 'truth'. This happened because of a very slow and gradual process. There was no obvious evidence that I was trying to draw her out....if I'd been too obvious...she would have stayed in for fear of being influenced by satanic apostate forces. But the influence - my influence - grew stronger and stronger each day we spoke.

    I started off by saying things like, how was field service today....or what's happening with brother and sister so n so these days....I expressed interest in her activities in the 'truth'. Btw, this was never something unusual, it was how things were before I left...so she was not alerted by any unusual behaviour. After a while, when she would mention certain people in the congregation who were doing things they shouldn't, my DF brother and I would start to question why they were allowed to continue to practice immorality or drunkedness, yet people like him and I were kicked out for lesser things. She slowly started to see the light...and her faith started to diminish. It was just a matter of time before she stopped going to meetings and FS. The most distinctive thing we worked on was hypocrisy...this is everywhere...in every congregation and is practiced by just about every member. And so we used that weak point to sow the seed of doubt...in time, it all started to wear her down. She is still pro-JW, but at least she no longer feels guilty for having contact with us DF/DA ones. I hope this helps...and again, sorry for butting in. Good luck.

    ~Beck~

  • minimus
    minimus

    Dragon, I always enjoy your thoughts! Out of curiousity, did you get involved in martial arts while still a JW?

  • grace4u
    grace4u

    Beck

    You certainly weren't butting in!! I need all the advice I can get here!I thank you so much for what you had to say, and it helped me in making my decision on how to converse with my sister. My next step is trying to get her to even speak to me, or opening any of my e-mail's to her!! Maybe I will have the same experience you had with your sister.

    Once again, no need to apologize, I appreciate that you responded. Thanks- grace4u

  • Beck_Melbourne
    Beck_Melbourne

    grace4u - thanks for your response. Now that I know you are not cross with me I can continue with my ramblings hehe.

    There is one thing that really puts jw people off, and thats apostasy. My JW relatives hate the idea that my brother and I may be apostates. I wrote to my sister the other day about the child abuse issue and I stressed to her that I was not an apostate, just interested in making friends with other exjw members like myself...she seemed to accept this...even though it was an outright lie. But my conscience is clear, my intentions are good. At any rate, by her definitions I am an apostate, but by mine, I am not.

    How I see it, friends are drawn to one another because they share things in common. Your sister will be drawn closer to her friends in the 'truth' rather then to you because she has more in common with them. I am not saying you should convert or engage in a bible study to try and draw her away from them. But you could try and work on the friendship aspect of your relationship with your sister first. You may find her less resistent to your thoughts on JW issues...and she may, in time, start to spend more time with you and less with them. The other thing that is a concern is that you are not or never have been a witness. This will mean any (negative) information you may have on JW teachings/practices will have come from what she would regard as "apostates" who are people she believes are evil and influenced by Satan. She will run like the wind to get away from it...their fear is that powerful.

    Those are my thoughts...all the best with your efforts and let us know how you get on. Regards.

    ~Beck~

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