What is an Elder?

by footprints 11 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  footprints

  Because this site has taken a survey of past or current Elders and posted a list, I think it is important to make it clear that: Not one Elder was appointed by Holy Spirit.
  Current and ex Elders are no more special or important than anyone else. In fact some are a lot less trustworthy than the average.
  
  On this note I would like to hear from all of you two things:
  
  1) What you saw some do to get appointed?
  
  Example:
  
  Buy the CO a suit
  Marry the POs daughter
  Kiss some major ass
  All of the above
  
  2) Some ways you saw Elders feeding themselves off the flock.

  Example:
  
  Stealing carpet.
  Having sex with the wife of his bible student.
  Molesting the neighbors daughter
  Lying about all of the above

  Just the facts. No names please.
• 

  pomegranate

  hmmm...more like brown headin.
• 

  ThiChi

  Hey, hold on! Before you make the claim that we were not appointed by Holy Spirit, you must first prove the structure and means of the appointment, the WTB&TS, is corrupt, dishonest, and, well, er, never mind.
• 

  rwagoner

  I appreciate the point but I don't remember seeing any reference in the poll to Elders or MS being "Special" or "More Important" than anyone. For me personally it is nice to know who is who simply because Elders and MS do have a little different perspective, being a bit deeper "on the inside" than some.

  I certainly agree that some of the most flagrant violations of JW rules were the Elders or their family members, at least in my personal experience. I also think that there are some who had good intentions and who left once they saw the "facts" and it is nice to see them here.

  Just my opinion,

  RandyW

  Edited by - rwagoner on 8 October 2002 16:54:47
• 

  Amazing

  In all cases I observed the usual: frequent Meeting attendance, regular and active Field Service, commenting consistently at meetings, and staying out of trouble ... once appointed an MS, then a JW man will usually spend sometime carrying out some assignments such as handling literature or accounts ... if they do a good job and don't need to have their hands held, then this is considered in deciding whether to appoiint them an Elder ...

  All that said, there is often an underlying, maybe even unconscious, tendency to select people much as the general world does ... good looking, or good well liked personality ... and those who have managed to fit into certain social groups ... then, when the CO comes to town, the MS being recommended is paraded before the CO by giving the Instruction Talk the night of the CO's visit, and also an important Service Meeting part ... this way the CO is familiarized with the brother being marketed ... then, the prospective Elder is often asked to work with the CO in Field Service and/or taking the CO on a Bible Study ... this way the CO gets a good picture of the candidate.

  The other items you mention are never considered, unless an entire Body of Elders is corrupt, which has happened a few times, believe it or not ... I am sure you meant these in jest.

  Politics is also a factor is the MS served at Bethel and as a by-product he also knows the same important people the CO knows ... and if the MS is related to JWs who are serving as Elders and who are higher profile in the Circuit or District, then his chances will improve some of being appointed sooner than later ... the rest of us who had no such connections had to play our own private politics ... and I did do that some to get noticed and facilitate my own appointment ...

  I agree with you that nothing about JW Elder appoint is reflective of any involvement by the Holy Spirit ... it is merely an organizational system that functions like most other sectarian or business organizations ...
• 

  stichione

  I agree with everything amazing said (isn't he amazing?). To add, I remember one MS in my congregation who was illiterate, couldn't pronouce the TH sound when speaking or reading, was an eager-beaver always willing to please, a definite YESYESYES man, and would laught at every stupidity that would come out of the mouth of our PO that was meant as a joke. The definition brown-noser in the dictionary would have his picture beside it. And it worked, he made Elder within less than two years although in my opinion wasn't fit to tie his shoelaces.

  5 years later he still can't pronounce the TH sound when speaking or reading.

  Edited by - stichione on 8 October 2002 19:36:59
• 

  jimbob

  What is an elder, you ask? One word........a

  PUPPET!

  I think that pretty much sums it up!!!!
• 

  pomegranate

  because Elders and MS do have a little different perspective, being a bit deeper "on the inside" than some.

  ...yeah right, deeper in shite maybe.
• 

  onacruse

  Amazing says: "Politics is also a factor."

  In my experience, politics is far and away the predominant factor.

  It ain't what ya know, it's who ya know.

  Craig
• 

  outoftheorg

  What is an elder??

  Many things or some times nothing at all.

  I read amazings comments and I have to say that I was none of the things that would be wanted in an obedient elder. I didn't want to be one so I sure did not campaign to get that title. I was not going in the service as much as others and I voluntered for nothing. I was quiet by nature and ( I don't want to brag here ) but a lot more inteligent than the other elders. I also had much more experience in management and other areas of life than the average elder.

  Why they wanted me to be an elder is beyond me. As I have mentioned in previous posts, told them I didn't feel qualified to be an elder and was told that to refuse was a sin of omission.

  It didn't take long to realize that I did not like being an elder and the rather false respect I got from the kiss ups really Irritated me.

  I told the co one time that I was treated more respectfully by the principle owners of business than I saw and recieved in the elder meetings. Then I learned what real jerk he was.

  I would say about three out of ten elders that I knew were basicly good men. But they usually got run over by the arrogant ignorant ones.

  I was not a yes man but I would not push hard and get all wound up over something insignificant. One time when I was in charge of the first aid station we had several older persons in the local congregations. Several had heart problems. At the co-elder meeting I made a motion that we equip the first aid station with a small oxygen unit. They had come out with some relativly inexpensive units. One would have thought I asked for an X ray machine. The most arrogant elder yelled out you are FIRST AID WE DON'T WANT 2ND OR 3RD AID. The co dipstick yelled out the same thing. I pointed out that the worldly people have this equipment at ball games, don't we want to give our elderly the same respect and treatment?? Then I was ignored and not one other elder said a thing.

  I thought to myself that I have never seen such conduct in any of the worldly business meetings I had ben a part of and some of these were hotly contested. But always with a measure of respect and a willingness to listen to the others recomendations.

  The only thing they wanted from first aid was the "appearance" of a first aid station. It was pathetic. They wanted my to station my car, "since it was a station wagon" at one of the doors and pretend it was an ambulance. I laughed at them and said if an ambulance run is needed I would call the nearest emt station. It was only about 5 minutes away. They got all riled up that I would not follow their demands.

  It got to the point that I did not have any respect for the ones that thought they were in charge and they began to hate me.

  I then got a job offer out of state and refused to accept an elders position at the new location. Some time I will tell you about the chaos at the new location.

  Outoftheorg