by Saintbertholdt 16 Replies latest watchtower bible
Finally I don't know where Marley Cole got the numbers
From Nathan Knorr. The book was a collaboration between Knorr and Cole. The book was presented as an "outside/independent" voice at the time it was published, without revealing that Cole was actually a Jehovah's Witness himself.
Hi OrphanCrow,
I hope I'm no too tiring.
The numbers that the WTS claim as their own are padded with many Bible Students who did not follow the Rutherford/JW doctrine and who had already left to form groups such as "Free Bible Students Association". Those Bible Students who had broke away from the WTS would also have worn the purple triangle in the camps but they would not have considered themselves Jehovah's witnesses or part of the WTS.
You are correct that there were other organizations, among others also splinter groups like 'The friends of Truth'. But the questions I would ask is were the member numbers significant and would those who disagreed with the Tower not be ostracized by JW members in the camps? Would there not be some documentary evidence of this? Also if the Free Bible Students Association went back to Russell's teachings then military service would become a conscience issue again. Although undesirable some German bible students fought in the great war.
For a modern comparison: An organization like the Watchman. How many adherents do they really have? And like the older organizations they just end up doing Watchtower bashing. Friends of Truth did this specifically.
From Nathan Knorr. The book was a collaboration between Knorr and Cole. The book was presented as an "outside/independent" voice at the time it was published, without revealing that Cole was actually a Jehovah's Witness himself.
I have read parts of Cole's book. I was not aware Knorr had anything to do with it.
Like I said it just doesn't gel with the 1927 published numbers which are broken down by congregation.
I don't know how to square this circle :)
Nah, you are not being too tiring. I have spent much time trying to reconcile the discrepancies in numbers and stories that have emerged out of the WT history and the period leading up to and including WW2 is especially significant in WT history.
You had said:
You can refer to Detlef Garbe Between Resistance and Martyrdom: Jehovah's Witnesses in the Third Reich – Page 47. Jehovah's Witnesses already numbered 20 000 in 1922.
I find that number to be a remarkable growth if it is compared to the numbers given to Cole by Knorr. According to Cole/Knorr, there were zero Jehovah's Witnesses in West Germany in 1918, only 4 years before Garbe's numbers reported for 1922. Six years later, in 1928, Cole/Knorr reported that the entire global membership of JWs numbered only 1,988 more (23,988) than the figures Garbe gives for German JWs alone in 1922. In six years the JWs only grew by 1,988 members worldwide? (that is, if you say that there were only the 22,000 German JWs...where are the rest?) Something doesn't add up.
The numbers don't crunch - and both sets of numbers originate with the WTS.
1918 1928
U.S. of America 743 6,040
Australia 130 305
Argentina ----- 34
Austria ----- 261
Bahamas ----- 7
Brazil ----- 18
British Guiana ----- 15
British Isles 2,784 3,066
British West Indies
(Trinidad) ----- 189
Canada ----- 998
Costa Rica 73 -----
Cyprus ----- 4
Czechoslovakia ----- 106
Denmark 26 324
Finland ----- 305
France ----- 447
Saar ----- 60
Germany, West ----- 9,755
Greece 12 77
India 2 69
Jamaica 50 84
Netherlands ----- 57
Newfoundland 5 -----
New Zealand ----- 73
Nigeria ----- 7
Norway 15 85
Poland 20 430
Russia ----- 16
South Africa ----- 58
Surinam 8 7
Sweden ----- 253
Switzerland ----- 763
______ ______
TOTAL 3,868 23,988
...would those who disagreed with the Tower not be ostracized by JW members in the camps?
They were. There are documented accounts of the Bible Students/JW’s in the camps being anything but cohesive on many occasions, with their behavior towards each other being, in contrast, mean spirited and exercising shunning behaviour, just depending on how they were acting in relation to the ‘group rules’ or to the doctrinal dogma. There are accounts of some Bible Students/JW’s being ostracized and treated badly in the camps by their own group – exactly like they do today.
Sorry about that table I posted - it doesn't want to hold the formatting...let me try this again:
Nope, didn't work...
Okay - link to New World Society by Marley Cole - the tables are in the appendix.
https://archive.org/details/JehovahsWitnessesTheNewWorldSocietyByMarleyCole
Hi OrphanCrow,
Thanks for the link.
There's another line of evidence that may shed some light on this:
From 1 April 1929 Watchtower: "The friends at Berlin have sold during the past twelve months nearly one million books and booklets, and that is more than were sold in all Germany through this colporteur work In the year 1923."
So they're comparing the 1923 numbers to 1929 indicating upsurges in numbers. And 1923 was still building up to the 1925 prophesy so they're effectively saying business is booming.
Now I think Garbe is getting his figures from Watchtowers of the period.
The 1 April 1932 Watchtower: "The wording of this resolution has been sent from this office to all the companies in Germany, which at the same time were informed that the Magdeburg company passed this resolution. Thereupon, until now, 509 companies of Germany, representing 17,000 friends, have written us that they have passed the same resolution."
I can see a growth of 3000 in one year considering the lowest point of the Great depression is still one year away. My guesswork: Now between 1933 and 35 I'm personally guestimating an additional 2000 based upon the reported memorial attendance of 1933.
OrphanCrow - "The WTS always claims all the Bible Student numbers as their own, when there is much historical documentation that many German Bible Students did not consider themselves part of the WTS in the years leading up to WW2 and during the war.
OrphanCrow - "The book was a collaboration between Knorr and Cole. The book was presented as an 'outside/independent' voice at the time it was published, without revealing that Cole was actually a Jehovah's Witness himself."
Once again, for the newbies, lurkers, and trolls...
x
...if you have to cheat to defend your beliefs, your beliefs don't deserve to be defended.
