by haujobbz 16 Replies latest jw friends
I was wondering has anyone been able to simulate how life started in the primordial soup
Someone told me it was tested by stanley miller and it couldnt be reproduced, is this correct or has anyone else proved this theory
Also the jws used this to prove this theory wrong in the creator that cares book but does that really prove it was wrong.
a) no this cannot be simulated in the lab yet. the conditions that generated high concentrations of important biomolecules have not been discovered. certain steps that most likely led to the formation of the first primitve cells can be simulated but not the whole series of necessary events.
b) this has little to nothing to do with evolution itself. evolution deals with the formation of new species and not with how the first cell formed. evolution is a fact and not questioned by any serious scientist.
The primordial soup has been simulated on may occasions on many campuses and such. It has then has simulated lightening strikes leaping around in there for quiet some time. All this was carried on usually in a ten-liter, three-necked reaction vessel. After unknown amounts of time have elapsed. The results of these reactions have produced various interesting organic molecules, and I don't know what else. No self-replicating stuff so far as I know.
Every time there is some new insight into evolutionary thinking, I think both sides of the argument go charging down to their labs to make another five or ten liters of primordial muck which, let me hasten to ass, is invariably brown. (Yes, THAT brown.)
francois
Haujobbz,
You are correct that no one has been able to create a situation where life has been generated from a primordial soup. Stanley Miller did, however, succeed in proving that several key elements of life could be generated spontaneously under circumstances that might have prevailed on the earth billions of years ago.
The fact that no one has successfully generated life in this way does not disprove evolution for several reasons. One is that Darwins explanation of how species develop should be taken as something independent of how they came into existence in the first place. That evolution of species DID take place is a fact, as certain as the idea that the earth is round ( I supose I'll take it on the chin for saying that!). Darwin's explanation doesn't really deal with how life got here.
Second, we can't be entirely sure just what the earth was like. Many scientists seem to be taking the idea that the elements needed to begin life came here on asteroids more seriously. Life may have been generated in space first! In that case, all efforts at trying to recreate the initial conditions that prevailed here on earth amount to barking up the wrong tree, anyway.
That said, the idea that life evolved from non-living elements is a very plausible one that is certainly in keeping with the spirit of Darwin's theory ( I have avoided the use of the word theory up to this point because it is so often misunderstood in the context of scientific discussions. Here theory means a hypothesis that explains the facts so well that it would be unreasonable to withold provisional assent. If you prefer, you may think of a theory as used here as a fact.)
Try looking up "Stanley Miller" on the net. I'm sure you'll find great stuff. A final note. I understand that when the society was putting together the "Creation" book, it had access to two experiments performed by Stanley. The results of the first were not nearly as encouraging as those of the second. The society used the information from the first experiment. It's typical WT style to find the "facts" that are easiest to refute and to discard the rest. Not technically lying, but dishonest in the extreme. In fact, I personally believe that it's WORSE than lying. As someone said, it's easier to squash a whole lie than a half truth.
Well, I'm not worried about the primordial soup until someone can assure me that there will be primordial crackers to go with it.
The real question is, can it be condensed? The people at Campbell's are eagerly awaiting the outcome of research in this area.
http://www.accessexcellence.org/WN/NM/miller.html
Here is Stanley Miller stuff
You know, Neon, I believe it can be condensed. Just add fossils.
"evolution is a fact and not questioned by any serious scientist"
Oh, I just LOVE these kinds of statements!
I looked into my refrigerator, and found some primordial soup. It had created life under adverse, cold conditions. There was mold on top. I am going to submit my findings to a scientific journal.
