Do they WANT a Jihad?

by TTBoy 13 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  TTBoy

  In leu of recent events do militant Muslams REALLY WANT their jihad to start? I think terrorists ARE manipulating things to start a "holy war". Why in their right minds would they attack a French oil tanker knowing they were one of the countries on the security counsel who was apposed to war with Iraq? Recently a series of attacks just as the US has passed a UN proposal resolution that calls for military action if Iraq does not comply with weapon inspectors. Sadam has said he won't follow any new US proposed resolution.

  I was wondering what other people are thinking. Terrorists have twisted the meaning of jihad as I noticed after reading this http://www.unn.ac.uk/societies/islamic/jargon/jihad1.htm but it also said Muslims will fight an aggressor (as the US will be) if we premtively attack Iraq. Are terrorists trying to manipulate things to get their version of jihad?

  Do you think the UN is destined to become like the League of Nations - obsolete?

  Edited to add - I only mentioned Iraq because of what's going on now but you have a whole region of people who might go "ape shit" if we attack Iraq.

  Edited by - TTBoy on 15 October 2002 14:56:16

  Edited by - TTBoy on 15 October 2002 15:49:2
• 

  AjaxMan

  Are terrorists trying to manipulate things to get their version of jihad?

  Yep, that's not far from the truth. Hmm... they sound just like the JWs, trying to manipulate and twist things to get their version of Christianity.

  Do you think the UN is destined to become like the League of Nations - obsolete?

  It seems heading that way.

  regards,

  Ajax
• 

  Dizzy Cat

  I think many members of the "Free World" quite fancy a holy war as well at the moment. Brings out the cowboy in us all eh ?
• 

  Amazing

  Islamic extremists have been trying to start a war for at least a decade ... Europe has had their share of terror bombings in Italy and Germany especially ... the terrorists would do these things regardless of any US/UK intention to send in a military police action into Iraq. We in the west need to remember some simple things about these extremist:

  1. They don't have anything against the death penalty, rather they love it.

  2. They do not respect law and order, but need, feed on, and love chaos.

  3. They have no desire to talk and negotiate like civilized peoples, but only have animalistic feelings.

  4. They will rape and torture your wife and kids right in front of your eyes, and laugh as you scream.

  5. In their eyes, we western people are infidel children of Satan, and we ALL deserve to die.

  6. The only sure things about them is that they act without logic ... today the US tomorrow the French.

  7. And when all is said in done, they want YOU dead, and to please Allah by being the ones to kill you.

  If the USA pulled all support from Israel, and paid double for oil and no American ever set foot outside the USA ... the Islamic extremist would still kill us, simply because we exist, and they hate every part of us, and they would have no trouble finding yet another excuse to carry out terrorism against us ...

  ... so, as a society, we have some choices to make ... do we want to live in some relative type of peace? Then we have to stop making excuses for these radical extremists, and remember they they do not think like we do ... they have a single-minded agenda, like a cult ... and it is either a matter of doing something about them, or be prepared to suddenly die in a plane crash, or burning building, or shopping mall bombing ... it is ultimately our choice to make ... linguini spined pussy-footing ... or ... stand tall and put an end to the crap.

  The UN has always been a pathetic and weak organization. It has done some good at times on a minor scale, and it serves as a talk forum to work out some interational disputes and develope treaties. Beyond that it is useless. In post WWII, just before the UN took off, though it was in the works, the allies went into Germany and imposed military rule. They did not screw around with resolutions and dancing with disputes ... they just got down to it and took over the country. Now, do we see Germans running around engaged in terrorism? No, Germans are nice and humble and have sense in their heads ... because they know what war means.

  The west needs to stop pussy-footing and just do it to Iraq, or not. But the dancing around, posturing, political games is a farce ... and most of all getting a blessing from the UN does not make invasion right, anymore than invading without the UN blessing makes it wrong ... Either Saddam is or had developed nuclear, biological and chemical weapons and plans to use them, in which case anyone can see that it makes sense to stop him before he nukes some major city.
• 

  TTBoy

  Thank for the response Amazing - I liked it

  TT
• 

  Englishman

  This article in today's The Times seems very relevant:

  Leading articles October 15, 2002 East and west A clash of civilisations must be avoided The implications of the atrocities in Bali are as sickening as the carnage. Whichever group was responsible and the finger points as much to autonomous Indonesian extremists as to al-Qaeda the target has become indiscriminate: Westerners are killed not for any political reason but simply because they are part of a civilisation that militant Islam now sees as the enemy. Striking at the West, in any form, is therefore justified by al-Qaeda as part of the struggle against a culture and way of life that it sees enveloping the world, suffocating Islam and inexorably changing the face and attitudes of the Muslim world. In their paranoia and paroxyms, these terrorists are drawing on atavistic fears and long-forgotten animosities in an attempt to rouse Islam from its torpor and pitch it into global war with the West. After September 11, Western leaders insisted that Islamic extremism was as loathsome to ordinary pious Muslims as it was incomprehensible. Appeals were issued for tolerance, Muslim leaders were invited to the White House and to Downing Street and Tony Blair toured Muslim capitals to seek a common front with moderates against terrorism. But in the past year the gulf opened up by the attacks on America has widened. The war on terrorism, unleashed by America, has been deliberately misinterpreted by militant Muslims as a war on Islam. Every success in that war the defeat of the Taleban, the internment in Guantanamo Bay of captured al-Qaeda members, the crackdown on extremists in the West and the freezing of terrorist suspects accounts has been portrayed as a blow to the dignity, independence and freedom of individual Muslims and their way of life. Militants have also played on the frustrations in the wider Muslim world: the burning sense of injustice, the corruption, lack of democracy, suffocating social conformism and the huge generation gap between those glimpsing forbidden knowledge through the internet and those struggling to preserve the old ways and the old certainties. The militants have been able to channel these frustrations against the West: authoritarian pro-Western rulers are identified as American puppets, Israel is seen as having carte blanche from Washington, and every economic and political setback is attributed to Western exploitation and manipulation. Nothing has so helped the militants as the reaction they have provoked from foolish voices in the West. Every denunciation of Islam by Jerry Falwell or Silvio Berlusconi, every reference to a crusade and every mindless attack on a mosque in the West is seized on as evidence that it is the West, not Islam, looking for a new enemy. Moderates who once saw hope and progress in Western technology and democracy see now only double standards (especially on the Middle East) and double-dealing. They perceive the Bush Administrations Iraq policy as an anti-Arab fixation rather than a demand for security and justice. Little by little they move closer to the extremist camp. Western statesmen must understand, but not condone, this vicious circle of hatred. The war against terrorism will never be won by insults or rhetoric; but it can be prosecuted with intelligence, decisiveness and properly focused strikes. That must be the immediate task in Indonesia. But good government needs reinforcing. Only if the West is ready to denounce abuses, even by friendly governments and among their generally pro-Western elites, can the militants appeal be undercut. Extremist groups flourish amid political and intellectual cowardice. President Megawati Sukarnoputri must now show courage, and not let militants shelter behind a reluctance to be seen challenging political Islam. She, like other Muslim rulers, must show that a clash between Islam and the West will bring only ruin to both. ALSO IN THIS SECTION East and west Call to arms One point of view READER SERVICES FAST TIMES The latest information to your mobile phone ......................................... PDA News direct to your palm-top ......................................... TALKING POINT Visit the Times Online discussion forum ......................................... SPORTS CALENDAR Search the full year's fixtures ......................................... YOUR WEATHER Request the latest local weather forecast ......................................... SHOPPING Browse and buy online from a range of special offers ......................................... CROSSWORD BOOK Can you complete The Times crossword? Buy the latest crossword compendium here ......................................... ARCHIVE Search for stories published from 1985 onwards in The Times and The Sunday Times ......................................... TO ADVERTISE Contact our dedicated sales team for details on advertising and sponsorship with Times Online ADVERTISEMENT document.write('');document.write('');
• 

  Shakita

  I have just purchased "The Threatening Storm, The Case for Invading Iraq" by Kenneth M. Pollack. Just starting reading it this weekend. So, I have read only about a fifth of the book. Very interesting so far, informational on the mindset of Saddam Hussein.

  For example, Saddam Hussein was born in a small village on April 28, 1937. His name, which is an unusual one, means "he who confronts." Appropriate, huh. His father died before Saddam was born. His mother remarried quickly, to a man who was known as "Hassan the Liar." His stepfather and his family reportedly made their living as local bullies and petty thieves. Various sources claim that Hassan often beat Saddam with an asphalt-coated stick and kept him busy stealing with his own sons and their cousins. Saddam was a loner. He was famous for carrying an iron bar wherever he went that he would heat until it was white hot and then use to impale unwary animals-dogs, cats, whatever he could get his hands on. This all before the age of 10. At 10 years of age, Saddam was sent to live with his uncle, a former army officer who was a character himself. His uncle was jailed for playing a role in the 1941 pro-Nazi coup attempt. Later, his uncle wrote a book, "Three Whom God Should Not Have Created: Persians, Jews, and Flies." What a beginning for any child!!!!

  Advance to July 1976 to when Saddam Hussein assumes presidency of Iraq. Like his idol, Josef Stalin, immediately after assuming the presidency, he quickly set out to purge the party and government of any but his most devoted and nonthreatening adherents. Saddam convenes a meeting of the senior members of the party on July 22. When the secretary general arrives at this meeting, it is apparent that he was physically paying a price for his opposition to Saddam. In a broken voice, he read a long, contrived confession regarding a plot against the nation he had led. Saddam then took to the podium and named fifty-four additional conspirators----all of them sitting in the room!!! As each one's name was read out--armed guards walked down to him and led him out to meet his fate. Many broke down in tears and had to be dragged out by guards. Others began to sob uncontrollably as Saddam read the list of names. That same day, Saddam convened a kangaroo court of high level officials to try and sentence the guilty. He then ordered all of the other high party officials whose names had not been called to participate in the firing squads that dispatched the victims. With this act, the party leadership was being forced to invest its future in Saddam.

  In March of 1987, Saddam appointed his cousin governor of Northern Iraq. Saddam gave orders to his cousin to get control over the Kurds any way he could. So, this murderous sludge employed chemical warfare to wipe out several towns. Iraqi forces began clearing areas of Kurdish residence with massive bombardments fo chemical weapons and high explosives, followed by army sweeps that often killed anyone left alive and razed to the ground anything left standing. On March 15, this scumbucket swamped the Kurdish town of Halabja with several varieties of chemical weapons and killing at least five thousand Kurdish civilians. When the campaign ended in 1989, some two hundred thousand Kurds were dead, roughly 1.5 million had been forcibly resettled, huge tracts of land had been scorched by chemical warfare, and four thousand towns had been razed.

  On top of the horror of reading this unimaginable horror Saddam has inflicted on so many of his own people, I am learning alot about what our own country has turned a blind eye to. For instance, after the above written horror, the US Senate passed a bill to impose sanctions on Iraq, but the Reagan administration prevailed upon the Congress to drop the matter!!!!!!

  I am only at the point of the Persian Gulf War in the book. But, so far, with Saddam's history of brutal and ruthless acts toward anything that seems to get in his way, animals or men, this is one bad nut that needs to go, and fast!

  Just my opinion, of course.

  Mrs. Shakita
• 

  nilfun

  Shakita:

  Yeah, Saddam is a real piece of work. Illustrates the profound effect an abusive childhood can have.

  Saddam convenes a meeting of the senior members of the party on July 22

  I saw some footage of that meeting on Link TV. A real stomach turner.
• 

  JT

  5. In their eyes, we western people are infidel children of Satan, and we ALL deserve to die

  @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

  interesting point, i think it was 60 min that explored the new relationship between christians like Jerry Falwell and Jewish groups - who are joining to oppose Islam in general

  They asked Jerry is Islam by it's very nature Violent and he said YEP -

  he feels that it is a good vs evil or should we say

  christian vs muslium mindset

  while i realize that all musliums and christians don't share this view, but all it will take is for a few nice mega churches like CRYSTAL CATHEDRAL to get thier windows blown out and a nice group of NON-Violent Christians will be ready to RUMBLE, OR if a few mosque get hit - well you know all hell will break loss-

  bottom line is the last thing that needs to be in the mix is RELIGION -

  POLITICS is one thing but when folk operate from a mindset of GOD IS BEHIND us you know some Sh!t is about to break out

  smile
• 

  BeautifulGarbage

  I wish I had more time to give this thread a more indepth reply. I will try to get my ideas across nonetheless.

  1. Do not confuse the Islamic Extremists and depots like Saddam Hussein. Though they use each other to further their own agendas, they DO NOT have the same goals. Each desire to dominate the region with their respective desires and "dogmas". Hussein is NOT a religious muslim by any stretch of the imagination. If extremists were to get power in Iraq, Hussein would be the first to die.

  2. Hussein WILL GET nuclear capabilties. Will they be intercontinental? Eventually, I'm sure. It's only a matter of time. The man has been proven to be a ruthless dictator. Even as far as killing his daughter's husbands. Also, ordering a failed hit on his own son, who is now in a wheelchair. So, here's the 64 thousand dollar question: Do we want to deal with Hussein BEFORE or AFTER he has THE BOMB? I'm sure giving the order to hit NYC or DC will be a decision equal in weight to whether or not his hair is in need of a root job.

  3.People are going to die, REGARDLESS. Iraq has a Shiite muslim majority. Thirsty they are for power and revenge. The Sunni minority that is in power now will suffer terribly as a result of Saddams topple. People suffer and die if we invade. Perhaps in the future, even more will suffer and die if we do nothing. The situation will not change for the better, if we do nothing. It will only get worse.

  4. My concern is that we don't seem to have a plan as to what is going to happen once Saddam is removed. If they, Shiite majority, is given power, well, that means they have a stronger connection to our other nemesis, Iran. Democracy? Well, Saudi Arabia is certainly against that one. Being the harsh, precarious, autocracy they are, their primary concern is that of keeping power. Democracy is certainly something they don't want to see spread. I just want the US to be prepared for the firestorm that may result in an invasion of Iraq.

  5.Palestinians. Neither Al Queda, or Saddam Hussein, don't give a rats ass about them other than how they can use the situation to further their own desires of domination of the region. They are unconcerned with any suffering unless it can be exploided to further their own sick, twisted, ideas.

  I could go on, but time does not allow.

  Good thread.

  Andee

  Edited by - BeautifulGarbage on 15 October 2002 12:50:33

  Edited by - BeautifulGarbage on 15 October 2002 12:52:54