Where did Jesus get the Idea of an After-life in Heaven?

by John Aquila 35 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  CalebInFloroda

  Ding,

  Jews don't read those Scriptures in Job that way.

  The NJPS version of the Tanakh renders these verses as:

  But I know that my Vindicator lives;
  In the end He will testify on earth—

  This, after my skin will have been peeled off.
  But I would behold God while still in my flesh,

  I myself, not another, would behold Him;
  Would see with my own eyes:
  My heart pines within me.

  This Hebrew text is ambiguous (at least the way we read it) and any reference to a resurrection just as much so from this.
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  John Aquila

  CalebInFloroda

  In this the Catholic concept is almost identical with Olam Ha Ba, including even life upon a restored paradise earth.

  I didn't know that and I was Catholic before I was a JW
  

  Village Idiot Not quite. Ancient Hebrews believed in a eternal spirit (ruach) that upon death would descend down into Sheol which was considered to be the underworld were the spirits of all persons, good and evil, went. They were to be in a spiritual coma so to speak, sleeping - not conscious but living.

  
  

  I wonder if this is what was referred to in Peter;

  (1 Peter 3:19) . . .In this [state] also he went his way and preached to the spirits in prison. . .
  
  

  
  
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  John Aquila

  "And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God, `I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not God of the dead, but of the living."

  Good one Ding, I forgot about that one.
  
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  Crazyguy

  Sorry calibinflorida you stated they were Jewish concepts, so I deduced you were stating these ideas were originally Jewish.
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  johnamos

  Where did Jesus get the idea of a heavenly afterlife? It wasn't from the Hebrew Canon.

  Mark 1:9 In the course of those days Jesus came from Naz´a·reth of Gal´i·lee and was baptized in the Jordan by John. 10 And immediately on coming up out of the water he saw the heavens being parted, and, like a dove, the spirit coming down upon him; 11 and a voice came out of the heavens: “You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.” 12 And immediately the spirit impelled him to go into the wilderness. 13 So he continued in the wilderness forty days, being tempted by Satan, and he was with the wild beasts, but the angels were ministering to him.

  John 7:16 Jesus, in turn, answered them and said: “What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me.

  John 8:28 Therefore Jesus said: “When once YOU have lifted up the Son of man, then YOU will know that I am [he], and that I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me I speak these things.

  John 12:49 because I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak.

  The idea of a resurrection was an absurd idea for the Hebrews.

  John 11:21 Martha therefore said to Jesus: “Lord, if you had been here my brother would not have died. 22 And yet at present I know that as many things as you ask God for, God will give you.” 23 Jesus said to her: “Your brother will rise.” 24 Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.

  Where did Martha get that idea???
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  Village Idiot

  John Aquila:

  "I wonder if this is what was referred to in Peter;

  "(1 Peter 3:19) . . .In this [state] also he went his way and preached to the spirits in prison. . ."

  I'm sure it is though I doubt that one in a thousand Christians would know that.
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  John Aquila

  Where did Martha get that idea???

  
  

  Good point johnamos, I'm just not sure if she believed in a heavenly resurrection which was the question in the op.
  

  
  
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  CalebInFloroda

  @Crazyguy

  Not a problem. I can see how it can read that way.

  The OP asked where Jesus got his teachings, and I was merely stating that all the concepts were already fully developed part of the Jewish eschatology that Jesus was exposed to from childhood onward during the Second Temple era.

  Judaism, unlike Christianity, believes that truth can sometimes be found among the Gentiles. So it is not odd to find adaptations of foreign concepts in its theology. Where these reflected an accepted truth they have been used from the time of Abraham up till today.
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  CalebInFloroda

  @John Aquila

  Check the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) sections 1042-1050 entitled "The Hope of the New Heavens and a New Earth." Some of the more interesting parts of this text reads:

  "Revelation affirms the profound common destiny of the material world and man...

  The visible universe, then, is itself destined to be transformed, "so that the world itself, restored to its original state, facing no further obstacles, should be at the service of the just," sharing their glorification in the risen Jesus Christ.

  We know neither the moment of the consummation of the earth and of man, nor the way in which the universe will be transformed. The form of this world, distorted by sin, is passing away, and we are taught that God is preparing a new dwelling and a new earth in which righteousness dwells, in which happiness will fill and surpass all the desires of peace arising in the hearts of men.

  Far from diminishing our concern to develop this earth, the expectancy of a new earth should spur us on, for it is here that the body of a new human family grows, foreshadowing in some way the age which is to come."

  Likely you might recall that the Apostles Creed ends with the words: "I believe...in the resurrection of the body and life everlasting." And the Nicene Creed makes a literal mention of Olam Ha Ba at the end stating belief in "life of the world to come." Catholics believe that at the end of time the resurrection will occur of both the righteous and the unrighteousness. Since the Greek term for resurrection means to "physically" stand, the Catholic teaching is that the bodies of all will be raised to join with their souls whether these were in Heaven or Hell (Purgatory is emptied at this time). The bodies become supernatural as was Christ's who was able to ascend to heaven with his, and the resurrected unrighteousness will return to Hell to suffer in body and soul, but the righteous will enter into the re-creation. (Hell in Catholicism is not a burning pit of fire, but eternal separation from G-d and anything that reflects G-d's qualities.)

  I have always found it striking how many Catholics are unaware of what the Catechism teaches or that the blessings of Heaven and taught to be brought to earth after the re-creation. It should also be noted that this belief in a restored paradise earth home for humankind is about 2000 years older than that of the JWs who often believe that this teaching is unique to them.
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  John Aquila

  Thanks Caleb, and you are right, many Catholics are very unaware of what the Catechism teaches of the blessings of Heaven to be brought to the earth. I am going to use this to prove to Jw that the Catholics always taught this since they, the (JWs) believe their idea is original.