Please convince me I'm wrong! (page 5)

gumby

SP,

Thank you so much.....and believe me.....so were you to me. I'd give you a big hug right now if I could. This thread and what yousaid could NOT have came at a better time than right now.

Thanks again, Gumby

StinkyPantz

Well, I got myself a little depressed with Pom's help, but if I made YOU feel better then it was all worth it!!!

The universe being billions of years old--no problem for me to believe that. Fundamentalists make themselves look silly, imo, by insisting on 144 hours from start to end. (Six days--Day 7 He kicked back.)

The existence of God--basically you have to infer it by circumstantial evidence. FI, food. A variety of sizes, shapes, colors, tastes, and nutritional values. Would this variety be developed if there was no need for it? I doubt it.

Or the balance of Nature--all animals and plants fulfilling some function while alive and being checked against overpopulation by death, which in many cases serves a need of the predator. The complex interactions of all members of Nature speaks of a God to me. Evolution, before it "fine-tuned" the mix, would have been out of balance originally--maybe seriously so.

The fact we can appreciate beauty, whether of a sunrise/set, a musical interlude, that rush we feel when a loved one reappears after being gone for a while--all useless from a strictly evolutionary "survival's-the-name-of-the-game" viewpoint.

I get the feeling something else's wrong, and this topic's a symptom, not the cause, of it. I'm a bit beat because I think I missed an appointment I'd really been looking forward to going to (will know in a few hours), and I could, in the right mood, get actually testy with someone over something else entirely.

I agree that the person who has doubts is the one searching. They may not totally feel they'll find the treasure they seek, but they are willing to grant the possibility and are making the effort. The one who believes totally, as you said, has no reason to search, just like the one who doubts totally.

I don't believe in Hell because the Bible says it doesn't exist and I see it as inconsistent with God. Hell is a scare tactic religion uses like parents use "wait `till your father gets home" with kids. God says, "Here's my offer. I really hope you take it and I'll be sorry if you don't, but you're as free to do that as Adam was to eat the forbidden fruit." Sorry, yes--P.O.'ed, no. Why allow us to die and then bring us back to suffer? Isn't that vindictiveness? Isn't He above that?

So as far as Him not answering prayers--that I can't comment on. OTOH, have new doors opened up for you that had been closed before? It sounds like your life should be pretty upbeat otherwise--classes, moving, children. Was this unlikely or impossible before, and then suddenly, voila?

I could say now's not the right time for the answer, or there are other lessons to be learned and experiences to go through before then, but I'm speculating. And my daughter needs to use the PC, so sorry this isn't more help. If you want to talk more my mail's open.

Take care,

Mark

SYN

SP, there is a simple solution to your problem.

Just apply Godell's Theory of Incompleteness to Ghod.

Then, you will understand Ghod.

PS. I'm leaving it as an exercise for the reader to actually look up and apply Godell's very simple proof...hehe....beware, it's a faith shaker!

Tashawaa

StinkyPantz

According to some logic presented, Doubting Thomas didn't stand a chance.

Last night, I was out for supper with some friends, and we got on this very topic. One person presented an interesting logic... Is God the creator of everything? Is there a limit to his creative abilities? eg. Could He create a boulder heavier than what he could lift?

I thought it was funny.

I believe the most interesting aspect of life is questioning it. Just because there are differences out there doesn't make one "right" and the others "wrong". They could all be equally right or wrong. They're just different. Variety exists. One form doesn't make the rest less or wrong. There are a variety of ideas... who put them all there? Couldn't they all be right? Don't tell me Satan and humans can think beyond God... (lol)

Sentinel

Hi Stinky,

Well, you know what? You are absolutely normal. You are stretching your thinking and becoming open-minded.

By the way, you can be a spiritual person, without being religious at all. My husband recently asked me what I'd call myself now, and I can't even say I'm a Christian. I told him I was enlightened, and we left it at that.

JW's don't want their members educated. They try to sway you from reading or listening to anything that isn't JW or borg related. Once you are free to do so, you can see why it is important that they maintain such control. Members would be leaving right and left.

One very good thing about having been a JW and leaving, is that you have already been taught the falicies of the other world religions. When you realize that JW's fall into that same category, you are really free at last.

Take from the good and leave the rest.

Nowhere

StinkyPantz wrote:

So if the universe had a beginning, did God? And if so, did he just appear one day, did he evolve, or did our creator have a creator? Doesn't an almighty God defy the laws of chance?

No, God whoever or whatever he/that is, did not have a beginning if he/that exists. Else there can not be a "God". If God didn't existed, the universe evolved by mere chance. God may have changed his apperance though after the universe was created, he was maybe not even "alive" before the universe was formulated, but if he had a creator, he is no longer God, that "creator" would instead be God, hence the reasoning here would apply to him.

Does an almighty God defy the laws of chance? Well, if He defined those laws, there is no such thing as chance in the universe. Everything happens as planned by that almighty God. But if there is no God who made those rules, we can say that things happens by chance.

We are back at square one. If you want to believe in a God, do that. But you will never live to see if there really really really exists a God.

pomegranate

Please convince me I'm wrong!

I did as she asked, and now she's pissed at me for doing as she asks?

What's wrong with this picture?

Or was this thread title really meaning "Please, convince me I'm right"?

Or, Stinky, what did you really expect from this thread anyway?

There's one sure thing that the Bible holds out for each and every person.

HOPE.

I am happy in my HOPE that I might be chosen. If I have HOPE, I have everything I need. It's the same for you and everyone else as it is for me.

Stinky, it aint't over till it's over. And it ain't over yet.

Rom 15:13
May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.

StinkyPantz

Kingpawn-

Thank you for your response. The things you say are the reason why I can't shake this whole God concept. I've never really heard a good explanation as to why we see things as beautiful or why certain things are tasty! I thought that maybe over time, happiness has helped us adapt so maybe we evolved into thinking that certain things give us joy and maybe we live longer because of it. But like I said, I don't know either way. But I'd like to say thank you for your kind, nonjudgemental thoughts. Oh, what do you mean by this:

I get the feeling something else's wrong, and this topic's a symptom, not the cause, of it.

I miss my parents. . . they shun me and I'm having a hard time with it. Maybe I need there to be a God for that reason.

Tashawaa-

I've often wondered if God can self-destruct.

Pom-

I'm not pissed. I sometimes sound really mean when I write. If you knew me in person you'd love me.

I am so happy that you are convinced of your faith, I'm not convinced either way!

gumby

Pom,

HOPE.

I am happy in my HOPE that I might be chosen. If I have HOPE, I have everything I need. It's the same for you and everyone else as it is for me.

Well if the Bible is for real....you WILL be chosen. Those who have faith in the son will be saved.

It scares me to think of not having a hope and life would seem meaningless to me. I could (appreciate that life is good) without a hope I guess, but that would NEVER suffice me. There are too many question my personal thinker has.

The " BOX" that has become known about is intresting a bit ( use caution )

If there is a God of love....and you call to him.....I think he will convince you in your heart...he's for real. ( and still "the questions" remain" )

Please convince me I'm wrong!

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