Girl dies for her beliefs (page 3)

Matty

(((((terafera))))), welcome back. Coincidentally I was only asking after you yesterday to jack2, wondering where you were. I obviously now know why you have been missing, I'm so glad the surgery went well.

Windchaser

(((((((Terafera)))))) Welcome back! I am glad that you had the transplant and that you were well informed! Hope that you are feeling lots better now.

Name-calling is a form of idiocy.Yep!

Six said: BTW, why would anyone believe that she died totally sure? She had to be questioning.

Were you ever brainwashed, Six? When I was a jw, I would have died happily for the cause. Put me in front of a firing squad. Let me die of an unbelievably sneaky, horrendous illness. That would have been easier than attending five meetings a week. Anyone who says she is holding God's hand isn't questioning anything.

Shakita

So Sad...So Sad.... The WT with its unscriptural blood doctrine gives everyone involved a no-win situation, except the WT itself. My heart goes out to the father who is left to pick up the pieces of his life and try to go on. The grief must be unimaginable. No words are appropriate to describe the revenge some must feel who lose a child to this murderous religion. No words are appropriate to describe the hate I feel for a religion that proposes to be the direct channel to God himself, when pitting families against one another, and sacrificing children to uphold some words written down in a book so long ago. So sad........so mad.....again, where are you, God, while your children on this planet suffer at the hands of an evil religion. Not the first time, won't be the last.

Ranting to God can be good for the soul, even if he doesn't listen, or exist,

Mrs. Shakita

SHUNNED FATHER

I had a conversation with Bethany's doctor and he informed me that she did not die of cancer. Her cancer count was low and not life threatening. She died of congestive heart failure due to a lack of blood. If she had received a blood transfusion she may still be alive today. They had been giving her chemotherapy which kills blood cells. That is why they hid her in a JW home, so I wouldn't know. They sat there for weeks watching her die knowing a blood transfusion could save her.

The Family Court, Queens Bench and Appellet Court all concluded that Bethany and her mother were not capable of making an informed or independent decision or able to exercise there own free will and that they were under pressure and undue influence by the church.

Joyzabel

((((((((((((((((Shunned Father)))))))))))))))

I am so sorry you had to live through this whole awful thing. My heart goes out to you for your brave stand trying to save your daughter.

May you have peace.

j2bf

terafera

(((Matty and Windchaser))), thank you for your kind words. I am feeling much better.. actually I am tired alot but am told that is to be expected for the next few months. I've noticed alot of changes though, softer and clearer skin, lost weight, my hair is shiny... so I'm happy to be getting better!

ShunnedFather, my heart goes out to you. I cant imagine what you've been going through. I hope I havent added insult to injury by talking about this so frankly! You are in my prayers.

Windchaser

((((((((((ShunnedFather)))))))))))) My heart goes out to you as well. I lost my child to cancer, too.

Edited to add: Shunned, please feel free to e-mail me.

Edited by - windchaser on 24 October 2002 19:1:33

czarofmischief

Farkel,

I'm glad to see that the organization has wrought no permanent harm to your self esteem.

Here is how your first message was incoherent :

: I know that the blood thing is probably wrong, and she died for a false belief, but at least she thought she knew what she wanted. We should be so lucky.

I know that the Jewish thing is probably wrong, and he died for a false belief, but at least he thought he knew what he wanted. We should be so lucky. - Adolf Hitler apologist using your own argument

It simply wasn't clear who you were comparing to Hitler. Thank you for not calling me Hitler, but merely calling me an:

Idiot.

All righty, then, what's next? My argument wasn't specious. I think your personal resentment at the organization has spilled over into resentment at ANYONE who doesn't oppose them at every turn.

So leave the boogeyman of Hitler in the closet until you can really use him, huh?

Oh, and, here's a laugh:

: The Jews had no choice under Hitler.

Nonsense. The Jews had lots of choices. Einstein left Germany in 1933, for example. Bethany could have left the Cult before she died, too. She didn't and died. Too many Jews didn't and died.

So the Jews should have just uprooted all their possessions and belongings during the Great Depression and fled the only home they've ever known? Maybe. But people aren't likely to do that. Anyway, that's not the point - the point is they made their choice! Are you going to call the Jews of Europe pathetic for not fleeing Germany? That's the same as calling Bethany pathetic for not leaving the super-cult while she lay on her deathbed! Who the hell is going to abandon their basic religion while they are dying?

Yes, the blood policy is wrong, and yes, Bethany could have easily taken a transfusion and lived. No, her father should have never been denied access. The Watchtower and the GB will rot in hell, if there is one. But she had the right to make her choice and we should respect that.

Now, sixofnine:

As far as you're statement "Now, this girl had a set of beliefs that hurt nobody but herself -", that is just beyond the pale. I'm sure you can look at that and see how ridiculous it is.

I was contrasting her faith to the faith of, say, a fanatic who flies an airplane into a building. Her faith was suicidal and hurt her family deeply, but at least it didn't kill a whole bunch of other people. Part of living in a free society is being willing to let other people make bad choices. I really really wish she hadn't made it, but she did.

Perhaps working around death has perverted your vision. Or perhaps belief in an afterlife has perverted your vision. How sad if so, since you know nothing of an afterlife, you can only speculate. You do however, know alot about what a 17 year old girl can do with her life is she is allowed to live it.

You're right. I can only speculate about an afterlife. But Bethany wasn't DENIED her life, she denied it to herself. She had the right to do that, for whatever reason. Working around death hasn't perverted my vision, it has cleared it. I have no illusions about our physical destinies. We all die, and most of us do it horribly, gasping for breath, choking on vomit, or drowning in snot, bleeding out of every orifice, or burning alive with fever. Most of the time, only strangers are there when we go.

Speculating about an afterlife is what I do at about 3 in the morning.

Anyway, the whole summup of the argument that I was trying to make when all this started was:

Don't call it pathetic. That implies disdain for her bravery. All I wanted was to pay tribute to Bethany's courage, misguided in application as it may be.

Anyway, the word was applied in a different manner than I thought, at first, so that's that.

CZAR

Edited by - czarofmischief on 24 October 2002 21:32:19

Buster

A 17-yr-old, blinded by over zealous self-righteousness, sticks to her guns and dies as a result. This is no merit (I apologize to her dad, if you are reading this) for this poor child. Her descision had no basis in a mature, rational world. Her descision-making was kept child-like and her view of right and wrong kept simplistic.

Those damnable, cold-hearted JWs that kept her away from medical help - relieved to be away from them.

jack2

Deborah, your faith in God has always inspired me, and even more so after reading about your surgery and how you prayed and felt right with Him. Get well soon.

Edited by - jack2 on 26 October 2002 13:42:12

Girl dies for her beliefs

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