Need help with a few questions please

by rejoice 13 Replies latest jw friends

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  rejoice

  I lived next door to a JW for 3 years and we became very good friends although it was often a strained relationship. I would read the books and even listen to the tapes from KH she gave me but, when I had questions or showed an opinion she would become so angry. I was reared a Southern Baptist and still am today and claim Jesus Christ as my savior through His GRACE. My friend Debbie is a single mother of 4 children and 2 failed marraiges. Not tooting my owm horn here but, I was very good to this friend even loaing her my car for days at a time when hers was broken and she couln't fix it until payday. "Accidently overcooking" when I knew she had no food money and sending dishes over to her. I could probably write a short novel on how complicated her life was from being in "the truth". But, I would blatently tell her all the watchtower had was an interpretation and nothing more. To get to the point....I moved and have not been in contact with her in several years but, I really have an ache in my heart for her because she was a decent person just horribly mislead but my questions are:

  Why did she maintain a relationship with me when in her words...I told the Elders my WORDLY neighbor does more for me than KH does. Why was I not an apostate? Or was I and she was just "using" me? Which she may have been but I still believe we had a genuine freindship.

  If i reconnect with her and she brings up the topic of the trutch what one thing could i say to her that might free her from this bondage?

  Lastly, she would always hint around to something I never got but I took it to mean in the new system she could bring me in just by association although I never was a JW. Was that something I imagined or is there is a belief in thier organization similiar to that?

  In closing I am truly impressed with these board, I probably read 100 posts before I decided to post here. Not to be corny but I can feel the genuineness of the ppl here and how hurt many of them are and so many of you are are willing to help them without judging them. That is a rare thing on message boards of any type. Looking forward to hearing some opinions.
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  gumby

  Hi Rejoice, nice to have you.

  Why was I not an apostate?....You can't be an Apostate unless you have been a JW before. They believe it is someone who rejects their Organisation as Truth. Someone who has dedicated themselves (baptised) into their faith...then turns away from it. It actually goes a little deeper. It is one who not only rejects their teachings.....but "vocalizes" themselves about it. They promote their ideas as to why the JW's are wrong.

  There is probably no "one thing" you can say to get her out......if there is...let the rest of us know.

  JW's usually will not read anything against their faith....if she would....suggest she read Crisis of Conscience, by a former JW who knew the "inside " working of that Organisation.

  As for you being in the New System.....you cannot get in by association. You must dedicate(be baptised) into their faith and prove worthy and faithfull to it in order to get in.(according to their own teaching)

  Nice to hear from you.....and take care
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  minimus

  Welcome, Rejoice. I'll bet if you talk to your friend now, she will be very receptive to worldly, apostate ideas.Sounds like she was having inner turmoil for a while.
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  link

  Hi rejoice,

  I have found that many JWs have their own strange little beliefs that are not taught in their religion. One of these is the one you mention about others being saved at Armageddon through association with them. I have heard that on a number of occasions and think it stems from their own alleged association with the 144,000. (Sorry, dont want to confuse you with their doctrines)

  Also, with regard to the word apostate, many witnesses have their own interpretations of this word which do not line up with the dictionary definition. I have very often heard it used to describe anything that is written or spoken which does not accurately reflect the beliefs of Jehovas Witnesses. Hence, according to them, you can get an "apostate book" or "apostate newspaper" or an "apostate recording" etc etc.

  There is no one thing that you could say to help your friend unless she wants to leave.

  Hope this helps

  link
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  Guest 77

  Don't friends normally keep addresses and phone numbers? Let me share this story with you. A witness friend of mine left the org. in the middle fifties and for the next twenty-twenty five years I personally kept in contact with him. He eventually returned and now that the shoe is the other foot,he nevers call me even though he says he will. Go figure. I do have his address and phone number and maybe today I'll call him. With your situation? I just cannot say.

  Guest 77
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  Francois

  I think you're asking why your friend was asking why SHE wasn't called an apostate after telling her elders that she was associating with you. Isn't that the question? Associating with you isn't an apostate thing. I think apostacy was defined for you above. It's a turning away from a faith you once held true. Associating with you could get her in deep do-do for having "worldly associations" but that's not apostacy.

  If she's still in the JWs, I can't think of any ONE thing you could say. Being in a cult is like being addicted to a drug; you will go to any length or extreme to protect your addiction. She has to have that little lightbulb go off over her OWN head, and then WANT to get out herself. If you could get her to read a book by Ray Franz, "Crisis of Conscience," that would be the single best thing you could do for her. Giving her the book is one thing, getting her to read it is something else. Unmarried, four children? Gawd, her chances of finding someone to marry her now are, I'm afraid, pretty slim.

  I hope you find her and I hope you can convince her to read CofC.

  You seem like you'd be a great friend. Are you taking any applications? Send one to me.

  francois
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  jws

  Looks to me like you were showing what a true Christian should be by being giving.

  The other posts touch on most of this, but...

  According to the religion, you're not an apostate since you were never a JW. You are "worldly" and JWs are not supposed to get too close to "worldly" people, unless there is a chance of converting you. Although in practical terms, there are far too many non-JWs out there to JWs. You see "wordly" people at work, at school, in your neighborhood, etc. It's hard for most JWs to shut everyone else out, relying only on JW friends because other JWs just don't enter into your daily routine. There often weren't any at school, or work for me. And when there were, we just didn't click as friends. So, most JWs I know do have other friends.

  From your post, it appears she, at least in part, may have kept you as a friend because you kept your talk about religion going. I think the talk of bringing you into the "new world" by association, might mean she thinks that some of her books/magazines sunk in. That maybe you know the truth and that will save you. And if she feels you're in that category, then you're OK to be friends with. On the other hand, this may be a way of rationalizing your friendship. Maybe she truly was a friend, but had to rationalize wanting to be your friend by categorizing you as somewhat accepting.

  As far as one thing you can say, I don't think there is any one thing. It all depends on their committment and experiences. And by bombarding her with several things, trying a hit-and-miss might make her reject you. I think, if anything, stay religious, but neutral. Show her that you were a good friend to her, showing her how you displayed Christian qualities.

  Welcome to this board. Hope you find the answers you are looking for.
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  Pathofthorns

  It was very nice of you to be looking out for your neighbour and it is impressive that she is still in your thoughts.

  The funny thing with JW's is that while they may personally be in need of help or assistance, they really feel that it is you that is lost and misguided. This makes them very difficult to reach.

  Often women in the situation you described your former neighbour having been in tend to put more weight to the JW belief system because that is all they really have. They make it into something more than it is and feel that it is the only thing keeping them afloat when often it is what holds them back.

  It will be difficult for this woman to ever view you as a really close friend as long as she remains a Witness. You will always be considered just a really good person that she thinks would make a good Witness. She is thinking that it is such a shame that you are not and subconsciously is a bit confused because non-Witnesses are not supposed to be good persons - certainly not better Christians than JW's.

  Imo, if you really want to help her this will be a long term "project". Keep doing what you have always done and be a good friend that is looking out for her. Keep critical comments about JW's to a minimum but perhaps ask well-timed carefully put questions that might make her think. Keep in mind you are ultimately tearing down everything she loves and holds dear in her life. If you take that away from her she believes there will be nothing left. You must replace what you take away from her and you need to show her that life can be just fine without her illusions regarding this religion.

  Path
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  Sadie5

  I wanted to commend you for helping her. It was things like this(non JWs caring and helping) that helped to turn on the light bulb and set us free.

  there is no one thing you can say to her, just show her you care, be a place where she can talk without fear of being punished for her thoughts.

  And I am a big believer that prayer works wonders.

  Sadie
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  rejoice

  Thank you all for the replies. I am really glad to see a board like this. I think I now understand the apostate/wordly difference. I believed they were one in the same. You know I always though JW's were just a peculiar branch or denomination until I had this personal experience with a member of the group. In fact, my mother was terribly intimidated by them when they would come to the door and I somehow got the impression they "just might" actually have the truth. I truly believe God puts where you need to be at different times in your life and because I was placed next door to one I was kind of forced to study the bible to defend myself. Because of that I developed a deeper faith and closer relationship with Jesus. So for her the opposite was achieved. It was odd the seeds I would plant in her through just normal conversation and she would immedietly go an elder and return with an answer for me. An example was telling her about driving cross country and noticing the difference in how KH looked. Some brick, some brick and siding and some just siding. She had never traveled outside her state. She insisted the Watchtower told them all KH's are EXACTLY the same. Heck, I could care less I was just making conversation but the next time she returned from a meeting she called me to inform me the elders told her there were architectural differences specific to regions. I would like to ask another question.

  Why is there so much division among families in the org? Debbie had several siblings who were JW and her mother was a JW. 3 of her sons dropped from the JW's the minute they turned 18. She did not speak to her mother or siblings at all. She spoke of them with terrible anger.They went to different congregations. Her son's she kept at a huge distance. I am sure she was shunning them but when I would ask why she had nothing to do with her mother she would quote the verse about..in the last days there will be no natural affection in families. She was always ratting on someone to the elders too. Do you get extra points for ratting on others? Seriously, does it count as hours? I know one time she recieved a letter from her mother telling her she was moving to FL and giving her a new address and she went to the elders with it and wanted her talked too. What is up with that? She said it was proof her mother wanted her out of her life and the elders needed to know about it. Please enlighten me as to what kind of weird control these elders have over people.