Sorry for bringing this topic up again for those who are tired of it. I've been busy in the last month and am just now reading the rest of these threads.
Larc,
I am just going to respond to you since you directly addressed me in both this thread and in Jim Pentons thread. I want to make it clear that I am not taking sides on this argument between supporters of Bill and Ray. I personally respect both men. And yes, I am a young man, of 38. My father is nearing seventy and has written a book, something I thought about but decided to put off. I think the books that Ray, Jim, and Carl wrote were fine and beneficial. But I disagree that being published has anything to do with credibility. I also disagree with your implying that my viewpoint or objectivity should be less than those who have come before me and have been published. I hope you will just take my words on their own merit.
(By the way, Thomas Piane was a young man when his words were so confidently used as fuel for the revolutionary fire by men of more age and experience. Bible believers also like to use the examples of young men who were presumably used by God to make correction or even inpsire belief, as in the case of Jesus of Nazereth. I do not presume to place myself in the company of Thomas Paine or Jesus except to point out that youth does not disqualify ones argument or observation.)
My comments were made only to point out that I believe, regardless of Ray's or Jim's personal and direct knowledge of the "problem" in question, that men in authority, as teachers and overseers, bear the responsibility of the organization that they support and propogate. Bill has admitted to being a part of the problem, as have many other men and women who acted out of ignorance, and appologized for having unwittingly shared in the perpetration of a crime against innocent victims. I would have expected the same from Ray and Jim once they became aware of the problem. That Ray chose to comment that he thought there was no proof that a problem even exists, at least not any more than in society in general, is surprising to me. However, I agree that it is his right to handle the issue as he sees fit. Still, I do not see Bills request of him to be out of line. I would probably do the same as Bill were I involve with what he is involved with.
You, and some others here, have apparently taken my comments as some sort of an attack on Ray and Jim. I assure you, I am not attacking either of them, or defending Bill. I wish to stay out of their personal conflict. But I can put myself in Bill's shoes and I see his actions in this matter as not too far off of what I might have got myself into a few years ago had I not slowed down and let things lie. I hope Bill learns from this experience and handles such issues better next time. And I hope that both Ray and Jim find a way to support Bill, even if indirectly, by admitting that they share the responsibilty, the same as those who continue to actively participate as "elders" or "overseers", of correcting this harmful policy they once supported.
Yet, I fear that as long as these men continue to believe that God is working behind the scenes and that Jesus has his finger on the pulse of human behavior, there will be little headway toward the solving of this issue to the benefit of innocent children. How rediculous to think that God has any involvement in either the formation or destruction of such terrible policies that hurt children. I think it is important to look deeper and start admitting that God has left us alone to work these things out. If we can take that view maybe we won't be so hesitant to offend someone by our honest efforts to help overturn an evil force. In my view, Bills willingness to face his own faults and continue to forge ahead in the aftermath of his own blunders, is just as commendable as Ray's approach which, in my opinion, has been carefully concieved to avoid causing a ruckus. I can guarantee you that if you had record of every stupid thing I ever said or did you could influence many to believe that I am bad for society. The smart thing to do in our society is to keep our mouth shut and don't say or do anything to get someone mad at us. I am just wondering why people who have been known as defacto "leaders" of the XJW movement would prefer to stay silent on such an issue as child abuse and prefer to give the impression that it is not a big problem. Could what they have to say on the subject ruin their reputation? If not, maybe it's that they don't have the patience (as is my own case) to put up with the dissection of their words by every remotely interested party as if they were somehow personally responsible for all that has ever happened or will happen in regard to this problem? I really don't know.
I want to give all these men the benefit of the doubt. Still, I think it's better that we admit we are fools and ignorant and start looking to the world at large for help. I despise the oft-repeated Christian mantra that we must be seperate from the world. The world is where we all are and we need to solve our problems in that arena. Bill's work is definitely more conducive to that end than is either Ray's or Jim's.
Sean
