Bill Bowen's unfortunate attack

by Jim Penton 86 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • Room 215
    Room 215

    Jim's very first -- and most welcome-- contribution to the forum is in the main a well-reasoned exposition. Whether the prevalence of child abuse or molestation is more or less prevalent among JWs than among other religious groups is secondary to the real issue: the reprehensible WT policy that subordinates the welfare of its children solely to perpetuate the myth of the organization's moral superiority over all other religions,.

    As we've seen, this all to too often enables the perpetrators among them to remain in contact with the flock and free to carry on their perversions. The real evil is in their hard-hearted intransigence in refusing to enact a simple universal policy of alerting the civil authorities IMMEIDATELY unless actually forced by the law to do so.

  • chasson
    chasson

    Chasson, Jim is by no means an apologist for cults.

    I know, i just pointed that he use an argument that scientology has forged against france. He must be more informed on the situation in France, that's all.

    I thought he made that clear. Both he and I both believe that the terms, cult, mind control, and brain washing, are over used, rarely apply, especially the terms mind control and brain washing. There are other points of view than Singer's regarding brain washing. In fact, there is no empirical evidence that brain washing works, with perhaps a few rare exeptions.

    I agree with this view, and i think that perhaps all anticultist in France are agreed with you and Jim. Unfortunatelly scientology has tried to diffame the french's government in the US and reading Jim's comment one could see scientology has succeeded in their agenda. We don't believe in France that "brainwashing" is a very good theory.

    Bye

    Charles

  • Tinkerbell4125
    Tinkerbell4125

    Jim, thanks for your comments! I haven't read your book, but I would like to in the future! I hope all this will clear up. I agree, non of this has been encouraging and uplifting and has done more harm than good. As a supporter of Silentlambs, I think this has hurt Bill and his credibility. I truly wish it had never happened.

  • RN
    RN

    Jim,

    Truly a pleasure to see you here. Your comments are very much appreciated, but mostly I just wanted to say hello and I hope you are doing well.

    RN--Who fondly remembers a lovely Japanese lunch in Abbottsford

  • emancipated
    emancipated

    Jim, welcome to the board! I very much appreciated your comments.

  • Anton
    Anton

    The early work of Bill Bowen is commendable.

    He helped expose the WTS as being no different from any other "worldly" organisation in having its share of perverts and abusers.

    However, like Liberal Elder's campaign to permit blood transfusion for JW children, Bill Bowen's Silentlambs is addressing the symptoms only and not the disease.

    Certainly, child abuse is despicable and disgusting, but it is only one of many symptoms of the disease spread by the Watchtower religion -- false hopes based on lies and anti-christian doctrine which ruined all our lives.

    ALL of us who left have experienced feelings of instability and insecurity as a result of being well and (un)-truly duped. Some of us gave our best years to the WTS, being raised from infancy by trusting parents to believe the Lie.

    Like millions of former JWs, I was never sexually abused, but I am nevertheless, very happy to be an ex-member! I am no longer a follower of men. And I am certainly not a disciple of Ray Franz. But some thanks for my present good situation (and readers here too) must go to him.

    As I was exiting the Watchtower, it was his books which made me aware of the depth and breadth of the WT's falsehoods. It is WT Governing Body's failure to follow Christian doctrine and to apply its own rules consistently and fairly which causes many of the ills we all suffered. It puts control into the hands of poorly educated and ignoble men -- the wolves in sheep's clothing.

    Ray's style of writing was non-confrontational and unaggressive. I am sure that many of us found it appealing and soft, at a time when we needed gentleness. But more importantly, his second book explained clearly why none of us need follow the lying leaders any longer. It showed us that the WTS is not special at all (except in its uncompassionate badness!). It was a stepping stone toward Christianity (or to other Ways for some). But most importantly, it gave us a good start on the road to FREEDOM from mental, emotional and doctrinal slavery.

    OTOH, how can we severely criticise anyone in particular for anything written in a WTS publication? The WTS and its "faithful slave" and writers are run by the Devi Inc!! The fact that there may be a quotation of Scriptures is irrelevant. We all know how adept the GB is in twisting Scripture to suit its ends! It gives its approval to anyone who writes its teachings appealingly. And were we not all guilty of saying and doing stupid - even wicked - things "with God's approval" while we were under the WT's influence?

    Someone once wrote an essay on the perils of organisation. Men start them with great and good intentions, but sometimes the groups carry us along and make us forget the humble and noble ideals that started them. Everyone jumps on the Bandwagon, wanting a piece of the action - 15 minutes of fame!

    So yes, your early work, Bill Bowen is commendable, but please don't allow present successes to go to your head. Don't forget why you started Silentlambs!

    And ask yourself -- did you love the WTS? Were you trying to reform it until they booted you out?

    Or did you walk away from it because, close up, it stinks of lies and hypocrisy and badness?

    Anton

    Witness Aid UK

    www.wauk.freeserve.co.uk

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    Hello Dr. Penton,

    Not to side bar but I am a little curious about this comment ...

    According to Common Law, a person is generally held innocent until proven guilty. But recently, as a result of pressure from radical feminists that tradition has been somewhat eroded in rape cases in certain jurisdictions in both Canada and the United States.

    As a guy I am kinda ... well .... curious just what you meant there. Thus, I must apologize to you in advance .... but ... I assume you are discussing a relatively new law that indicates a woman's past and present sex life is not being admissible in a court of law during a criminal rape case?

    I always thought that the law that you discuss (which was originally in case law form and then put into statute such as the Criminal Code of Canada) was enacted for the same reasons as how a crimminal's past record is usually not to be used against him/her in a trial to determine guilt or innocence. Usually, past history becomes admissible in a sentencing phase of a criminal trial. The idea of course is to ensure that only relevant evidence relating to the crime itself is presented to the Judge/jury so as to not "contaminate" the Judges/jury's minds. Much the same as some bad a$$ looking crime photos of child murder are not admissible.

    The court must make a "reasonable" determination on the evidence. For example in rape there are certain parts of women's private area that bruise differently than other parts when consentual sex occurs (some call it - "interpreting the clock"). Does it confirm rape by itself? No. But, it is a good indication of rape. Just like a statement from the victim is an "indication" of rape. You add to that "semen" evidence, if any, add to that other "factual" evidence such as other parts of the woman's body being brused, scratches on the man and then of course the statement from the "accused". All of the evidence is "tested" in court through "evidence in chief" and "cross examination". And based on the admitted "evidence" with the points of law, a court makes a final "reasonable" determination.

    I was lead to believe what happened in a lot of cases (and I thought all of the liberal and conservative courts of the USA and Canada agree) was that defence lawyers used "ad homenim" tactics on a woman's sex life and style that had absolutely nothing to do with the case to "dress" the woman down - make her look like a "slut" (pardon the language) as one famed counsel who shall remain nameless told me.

    You, Dr. Penton, personally watched Colin Stevenson, WTS lawyer, bring up Vicki's sex life as an adult in her second day of testifying in court. Vicki's adult sex life had nothing to do with her father raping her as a younger child. Mr. Mark, lawyer for Vicki, made an absolute huge mistake in not objecting to that line of questioning by Mr. Stevenson. Even the Judge knew it but it was up to Mr. Mark, as Vicki's attorney, to object and the Judge couldn't do anything. Of course the attack backfired on Stevenson and for those paying attention in court, the Judge hinted about "ad hominem" attacks not being relevant when Mott-Trille was on the stand and in closing statements.

    So .... in these past cases, I thought the point the defence lawyers were trying to make to the Judge and juries in rape cases in the past (and sucessfully I might add in some cases) was that these women wanted to have sex all the time, were like "hookers", and thus, they must have wanted to be raped. I also thought what the courts finally concluded was ... listen up defence counsel, when it comes to a victim's credibility in her statement, you should be focusing on .... is this woman likely to tell a "lie" that she was raped, and you, defence counsel should not be focusing on whether she liked sex or what type of sex she practiced!

    I also thought the court indicated - liking sex or different sex from the supposed norm is not the same as telling a lie and thus, the line of questioning about one's sex life is inadmissible in a court of law. I also thought the courts went on to say that if you find evidence of lying in her past then that is admissible to whether she is telling the truth on the stand, and that is what you, defence counsel, should focus on as a defence for the defendant in the case when discussing the "statement" of the victim.

    Oddly I did not read where radical feminists by themselves changed the law? I know they were involved but it took a combined effort of victims (both men and women), lawyers, criminal attorneys who dealt with many of these cases, independent court rulings (upheld on appeal) that created new case law and government actions to change the law.

    So I am kinda curious as to why the law (if I have the right one) is critically wrong?

    I look forward to your comments.

    hawk

    Edited by - hawkaw on 29 October 2002 15:40:22

  • Sentinel
    Sentinel

    Your thread is balanced and reasonable, and I really appreciated that you took the time to put together such a well thought out statement.

    Sometimes, having a cause makes us a sudden celebrity, and we just don't know how to handle it. I think Mr. Bowen was overwhelmed, and at the same time, he had to deal with his own personal status and issues.

    Whereas, Mr. Franz is seasoned and mellow, because his experience happened awhile ago. He already has his own books out, and a very supportive group. I can't understand why some feel we need to chose between these two people, or try to pit them against each other by stirring up contention.

    Didn't we have enough pain and hurt already because of the JW experience?

  • bluesapphire
    bluesapphire

    I'm with Hawk. I hope JP decides to answer his questions because right now I have a bad taste in my mouth.

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    Sentinel,

    I can't understand why some feel we need to chose between these two people, or try to pit them against each other by stirring up contention.

    It was Bill Bowen who started the "contention". Most here were supporters of both Bowen and Ray Franz and would never have dreamed such a divide could happen.

    The fact that two prominent xJWs came here for the first time and posted in defense of Ray Franz is indicative of the severity of BB's accusations and slander against Franz.

    If BB and Franz had a personal disagreement what was the purpose of BB bringing that disagreement here? I must assume it was to bring down Ray's reputation, to get back at Ray Franz, to strike! Well, he picked the wrong target.

    IW

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