Why do so many people here disbelieve allegations?

by avishai 41 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

• 

  Yerusalyim

  Ok, I've been mulling over this very issue since it's once again popped up in my life. I too was molested as a child by a brother, a neighbor, and a few others starting at age 5. Having said that I am indeed worried about protecting children. Here's the rub though, what to do with an allegation when the statute of limitations for criminal court action has run out?

  Based solely on the allegation of one man 32 years after the molestation allegedly took place a man I love and respect has lost his livelihood, his home, and his reputation. The allegation was made only after the accuser was himself indicted for molesting his own children. No one else has made an allegation against my friend. So, how much faith should be put in an allegation made that long after the event did or didn't happen?

  Without any type of due process, because of the "zero tolerance" policy of the Catholic Church, the priest has been removed from the parish. Is this justice? Or is this the accuser trying to find sympathy from the judge and jury by showing the mitigating circumstances of a supposed molestation?

  I honestly don't know the answer. This kind of reminds me of the case of Cardinal Bernadin a few years ago. The accusation made against him sounded credible. After several months the guy making the accusation admitted he'd lied.

  What should a church, or any organization do, when one accusation is made, that isn't current, such as this 32 year gap between event and allegation. No criminal charges are possible. Should the church investigate? Are they trained to investigate. What should be considered credible evidence?

  Suggestions?
• 

  waiting

  What should a church, or any organization do, when one accusation is made, that isn't current, such as this 32 year gap between event and allegation. No criminal charges are possible. Should the church investigate? Are they trained to investigate. What should be considered credible evidence?

  I sure don't know the answer. But this is tragically why these entwined issues are not black and white. Every shade of grey.

  waiting
• 

  avishai

  You, as an elder or a mandatory reporter, ( due to my job, I am a mandatory reporter) It's not your job as an elder to decide or investigate validity. It's the law.
• 

  waiting

  It's not your job as an elder to decide or investigate validity. It's the law.

  I'm assuming your speaking of elders? It's not the law in all 50 states of the usa. I believe it's the law in Canada & in Britain. Not sure about Europe. Definitely not sure about the rest of the world.

  My point being.......it depends upon where the elder lives. One major gripe of many people is that if the WTBTS was truely, ethically, concerned about the welfare of children ----- they would make it their WORLDWIDE POLICY to report to trained professionals the sexual abuse of children.

  But the WTBTS tells their elders to ONLY report where they are legally bound to do so.......and then not every time.....as Bill Bowen has proven on Dateline.

  waiting

  Edited by - waiting on 30 October 2002 17:28:0
• 

  kenpodragon

  I believe that everyone has a right to a fair trial. Allegations have more then once been turned into lynch mobs that work off of pure emotion. That is why we have a legal system to set things strait in front of a jury of our peers. Agree or disagree, that is how our land works. I never accept what someone says as 100% true, until I see ALL of the facts and hear both sides of the story.

  If anyone ever thinks that there are not people out there who would say false or misleading things to get attention or to harm some one they have a problem with. Watch the movie the Crucible, as I think it explains things very well and shows a GREAT example of how allegations can sound believable and yet be completely false.

  Not that I do not think it is possible. I just think their is due process.

  My thought

  Dragon
• 

  avishai

  Yes, it is, in every state. People tend to forget the child protection act or Mondale law of 1974, a federal law superseding state law, requiring, teachers, counselors, clergy, etc. to report child abuse.
• 

  hawkaw

  avishai .....

  Well, I dont know if you know what you are talking about ..... maybe I am getting confused but .... I thought the Mondale law was completed in 1984 (in the senate) and 1983 in the house and not 1974???

  ..... I have been into the U.S. Code, Title 18 located here:

  http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/

  Part 1 Crimes is located here:

  http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/pI.html

  NOTE: I thought the actual Mondale law (1984) that I think you are citing does NOT discuss the reporting by clergy (nor have I found a federal law in the U.S. Code that requires clergy to report sexual abuse). The actual amendments to Title 18, Chapter 1, and the making of the Child Protection Act of 1984 is found here:

  http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/2253.notes.html

  and here:

  http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d098:HR03635:|TOM:/bss/d098query.html|

  The Short Summary of the 1984 Act in Congress and the Senate is found here:

  http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d098:HR03635:@@@L|TOM:/bss/d098query.html|

  Here let me tell you what the summary says

  SUMMARY AS OF:

  (REVISED AS OF 03/30/84 -- Measure passed Senate, amended)

  Child Protection Act of 1984 - Amends the Federal criminal code dealing with the sexual exploitation of children. Increases the penalties for the sexual exploitation of children from $10,000 to $100,000 and, on a subsequent conviction, from $15,000 to $200,000. Sets a fine of $250,000 for organizations.

  Prohibits the distribution of materials involving the sexual exploitation of minors even if the material is not found to be "obscene."

  Eliminates the requirement that persons distributing such material in interstate commerce do so for purposes of sale.

  Raises the age of a minor to include any person under the age of eighteen.

  Redefines "sexually explicit conduct."

  Permits authorization for the interception of wire or oral communications in the investigation of such offenses.

  Requires the Attorney General to report annually to Congress on the prosecutions, convictions and forfeitures under this Act.

  If you can show me the location of the law you are talking about .... I would appreciate it. But from what I can gather - the Mondale law of 1984 DOES NOT discuss clergy reporting incidents of child abuse.

  hawk

  Edited by - hawkaw on 4 November 2002 14:2:52
• 

  Dutchie

  Mondale Act:

  It is known as the Mondale Act of 1974 (P.L. 93-247) or the Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act (CAPTA).

  A well-meaning, well-intentioned law, it was implemented to stop a bona fide problem -- child abuse. But, the problem has created a monster!

  Until the fruition of CAPTA, child abuse was rarely reported and often concealed.

  The Intent

  Congress' intent was to provide incentives to the states if they would set up programs targeting child protection research, identification, prosecution and treatment regimens.

  Once the states complied with the provisions outlined under CAPTA, NCCAN allocated matching monies to these same states.
• 

  hawkaw

  oh!!! ... no wonder ... the words "and treatment" were missing. But wait ... lets look at it

  http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/42/5118to5118e.html

  http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d093:SN01191:|TOM:/bss/d093query.html|

  Title 42, Chaper 67, Subchapter V, Section 5118

  SUMMARY AS OF:

  (AS REVISED) Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act - Establishes a National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect to monitor research, maintain a clearinghouse on child abuse programs, and compile and publish training materials for persons working in the field.

  Establishes a program of demonstration grants to be used in training personnel in the field of medicine, law and social work and to support innovative projects aimed at preventing or treating child abuse or neglect. Provides that not less than 50 percent of the funds appropriated under the Act for any fiscal year must be reserved for demonstration programs and projects authorized under this Act.

  States that of the sums appropriated under the Act, not less than 5 percent and not more than 20 percent may be used for grants to the States for programs authorized by the Act.

  Makes provisions for a State to qualify for assistance under the Act.

  Provides authorizations for fiscal years 1974 through 1977 of, respectively, $15,000,000; $20,000,000 $25,000,000 and $25,000,000.

  Directs to be made a complete and full study and investigation of the national incidence of child abuse and neglect, including a determination of the extent to which incidents of child abuse and neglect are increasing in number or severity. xRequires the Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare to promulgate regulations and make such arrangements as may be necessary or appropriate to ensure that there is effective coordination between programs related to child abuse and neglect under this Act and other such programs which are assisted by Federal funds.

  I do NOT see a location where this federal law requires CLERGY to report abuse.

  I also NOTE that section 5118 to 5118e have been repealed - no doubt new and improved legislation has come about but not talking about a federal law that requires manditory reporting for clergy.

  hawk
• 

  hawkaw

  Oh!!

  http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/42/5118to5118e.html

  It looks like the new replacing legislation is found in Pub. L. 102-295, title I, Sec. 131, May 28, 1992, 106 Stat. 199, related to authorization of appropriations for carrying out this subchapter.

  But again I do not see where this has anything to do with a federal law requiring the mandatory reporting of child abuse by the clergy.

  hawk