Need a little athiest help here

pandora

I recieved this email from a customer of mine I have become close to.
She has heard a small portion of the horrid details of my past with the Jehovah's Witness religion.
Today we were talking and that dasterdly topic of religion came up again. I made some flippent remark about god and not believing in him. (I forgot she was a god-fearin' girl) My mistake. Anyway, I mentioned that god has been the cause of a lot of the wars and even the 9/11 attacks. At least that is what I said, but like most god-fearers, she spoke over most of what I said. God only knows(HAHAHAHA) what she heard. So, I have a problem articulating all the problems with the god theory. Anybody wanna throw some good ones at me to use? At least if I write an email she can't talk over me.

I hope this message isn't too "heavy". I am not trying to upset you or make our friendship WEIRD.....

I understand you might feel that bad things come from God because of the way you were brought up. But really, God loves you and doesn't bring bad things into people's lives. Sometimes "religion" takes people further from God, instead of bringing them closer. I understand you giving up on "religion", but don't give up on God. Someday I hope you can see this in a different light.

Thanks for the help
-P(J)

og

Google "skeptics" and "secular humanism" you'll find quite a few good links.

And then meditate on the history of the religious v. the history of the skeptics/agnostics/atheists - what real, tangible good has religion ever done?

If your friend can't accept your beliefs, without trying to convert you to hers, reconsider the friendship.

Xander

1) What tangible thing has 'god' every done for ANYONE that you can prove happened and you can prove would not have happened if not for his direct intervention?

2) Why does x person feel the need to believe in some higher power?

See www.infidels.org for a lot of interesting articles on this and similar topics.

Edited by - Xander on 29 October 2002 16:41:7

DJ

Pandora,

If you truly believe what you said then I would think that you need no help from anyone. Use your own words from your own heart and mouth.

pandora

Gosh DJ-
Wish I'd a thought of that.

I'm not asking for anyone to write a reply for me. All I wanted were some concepts that have been discussed here way too many times before. Just something to focus my brain on. That is all.

Thank you Xander for the link to infidels.org. I am getting a lot of ideas there.

And Jim, your right of course. It is the warped views of god that start wars. Not everyone is that far out there. "Normal people don't go killing people!!"
Your right. Thank you.

-P(J)

Guest 77

Your really opening up the 'box' aren't you pandora?

Guest 77

Kenneson

Og,

Perhaps you could do us the honor of reversing your question and responding to it. What real, tangible good has atheism, skepticism and agnosticism ever done?

Satanus

Ken

Modern science came from skeptics. Astronomy, modern medicine, jet travell, freedom of thought, the credit system (the catholic church outlawed usuary. Radicals - the knights templars and jews, brought in a credit system. Europe was revitalized, the dark ages were broken). A few things bought in by atheism, skepticism.

SS

patio34

1) It seems to me that Carl Sagan's statement sums it up in a nutshell:

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof."

To me, it seems there is nothing but allegations and no proof of such an extraordinary being entirely out of the experience of humankind. That's why faith is so all-important: there is no proof.

2) Another quote from the movie 13 Conversations about One Thing follows this up:

Faith is the antithesis of proof.

In the movie, this was said by a judge to a witness who was trying to prove something by stating her religious faith. The judge ruled it inadmissible in a courtroom. It seems to me that it's inadmissible in a reasonable person's mind. (Pat ducks for cover!)

Sagan went on to explain if someone told you there was an invisible dragon in their garage, but there was no way to test for it, would you believe in it? Of course not. The burden of proof is on the one alleging remarkable, unprovable things. It's not the atheist's burden to prove there is no god. Can you prove there is no invisible dragon? No, but it's up to the one making such claims.

Pat

og

Ken, SaintSatan answered for me quite well. I would also add that skeptics have committed far fewer repugnant acts. There have been no crusades in the name of secular humanism.

Need a little athiest help here

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