please help

by jiutman 21 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped
    Here are the Scriptures which show that Jesus Christ is the Alpha and the Omega and the First and the Last:

    Revelation 1:7: Behold, He comes with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, and the ones who pierced Him, and all the tribes of the Earth will wail on account of Him. Yes, Amen.
    Revelation 1:8: I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, says the Lord, the One who is, and who was, and who is coming, the Almighty.

    Revelation 1:10: I came to be in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
    Revelation 1:11: saying, What you see, write in a scroll, and send to the seven assemblies of Asia: to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.
    Revelation 1:12: And I turned to see the voice which spoke with me.
    Revelation 1:13: And having turned, I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, having been clothed to the feet, and having been girded with a golden girdle at the breasts.

    Revelation 1:17: And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet, as dead. And He put His right hand on me, saying to me, Do not fear. I am the First and the Last,
    Revelation 1:18: and the Living One; and I became dead; and, behold, I am living forever and ever. Amen. And I have the keys to Hell, and of death.

    Revelation 21:5: And the One sitting on the throne said, Behold! I make all things new. And He says to me, Write, because these Words are faithful and true.
    Revelation 21:6: And He said to me, It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the Ending. To the one thirsting, I will freely give of the fountain of the Water of Life.
    Revelation 21:7: The one overcoming will inherit all things, and I will be God to him, and he will be the son to Me.

    Revelation 22:12: And, behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each as his work is.
    Revelation 22:13: I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, the First and the Last.

    Revelation 22:16: I, Jesus, sent My angel to testify these things to you over the assemblies. I am the Root and Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.

    Revelation 22:20: The One testifying these things says, Yes, I am coming quickly. Amen. Yes, come, Lord Jesus!

    I will post more soon.

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Also, there is NOT ONE Verse in ANY Bible Translation that says Jesus Christ is Michael the Archangel.

  • fulano
    fulano

    Sorry, but trying to defend Trinity with the bible is impossible.So stop waisting your time and loads of discussions.

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Hi Fulano!

    Well, thanks for your opinion.

    What do you believe about the Father and Jesus Christ?

    The New Testament is where the Trinity Doctrine originated.

    The Bible is extremely clear that Christ is to receive Equal Honor, Glory, Praise, and Worship with the Father.

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Also, there is no Special Honor that is supposed to be given to the Father, which is not also given to the Son in the Bible.

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    If you decide you want to talk to the JW's about other subjects, here are some Threads I started that you might find helpful:

    Over 150 IMPORTANT QUESTIONS to Ask the Jehovah's Witnesses: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=37330&site=3

    The Watchtower vs. The Bible: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=36418&site=3

    The Watchtower requires women to SCREAM if they are Raped, or they will be Disfellowshipped and Shunned: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=35408&site=3

    What is the Watchtower's Pedophile Policy? http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=36778&site=3

    Every News Story about the Watchtower's Pedophile Cover-Up: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=39165&site=3

    All of the SECRET Watchtower Letters about Pedophiles: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=37162&site=3

    The Watchtower teaches that you must OBEY EVERYTHING THEY SAY OR BE DESTROYED: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=37790&site=3

    The Watchtower teaches that LYING IS A GOOD THING in order to protect the Organization: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=35689&site=3

    What do Jehovah's Witnesses REALLY Believe? http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=37608&site=3

    The Watchtower FORBIDS Life-Saving Blood Transfusions: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=36891&site=3

    If you leave the Watchtower, or if they kick you out, find out all about their Disfellowshipping Policy: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=35751&site=3

  • shortseller
    shortseller

    go to a nutral source ... the encyclepedia ...briticania ? maybe .. look up the word

    trinity and see what it says.... would that source have a bias? i dont think god would

    go to all the trouble teaching hes one... to have other wise ..thanks in advance.

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Welcome to the Board shortseller!

    You said:

    go to a nutral source ... the encyclepedia ...briticania ? maybe .. look up the word trinity and see what it says....

    Good Idea!

    would that source have a bias?

    I doubt it would.

    i dont think god would go to all the trouble teaching hes one... to have other wise ..thanks in advance.

    I understand what you're saying.

    However, the Bible also teaches that when a man and woman get married they become one flesh.

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    I thought it was a great idea by ShortSeller to look up and see what different Encylopedias say about the Trinity.

    Here is what 3 different Encylopedias say about the Trinity:

    Encylopedia.com:

    Trinity:

    [Lat.,threefoldness], fundamental doctrine in Christianity, by which God is considered as existing in three persons. While the doctrine is not explicitly taught in the New Testament, early Christian communities testified to a perception that Jesus was God in the flesh; the idea of the Trinity has been inferred from the Gospel of St. John. The developed doctrine of the Trinity purports that God exists in three coequal and coeternal elements -- God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit (see creed 1). It sees these persons as constituted by their mutual relations, yet does not mean that God in his essence is Father, or a male deity. Jesus spoke of a relation of mutual giving and love with the Father, which believers could also enjoy through the Spirit. The Trinity is commemorated liturgically in the Western Church on Trinity Sunday. For systems denying the Trinity, see Unitarianism.

    Bibliography: See studies by L. Hodgson (1960) and A. W. Wainwright (1962); G. L. Prestige, God in Patristic Thought (repr. 1964); J. N. D. Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines (1977); E. Jngel, God as the Mystery of the World (1983).
    -------------------------------------------------

    Encarta.com:

    Trinity:

    Trinity, in Christian theology, doctrine that God exists as three personsFather, Son, and Holy Spiritwho are united in one substance or being. The doctrine is not taught explicitly in the New Testament, where the word God almost invariably refers to the Father; but already Jesus Christ, the Son, is seen as standing in a unique relation to the Father, while the Holy Spirit is also emerging as a distinct divine person.

    The term trinitas was first used in the 2nd century, by the Latin theologian Tertullian, but the concept was developed in the course of the debates on the nature of Christ. In the 4th century, the doctrine was finally formulated; using terminology still employed by Christian theologians, the doctrine taught the co-equality of the persons of the Godhead. In the West, the 4th-century theologian St Augustine of Hippo's influential work De Trinitate (On the Trinity, 400-416) compared the three-in-oneness of God with analogous structures in the human mind and suggested that the Holy Spirit may be understood as the mutual love between Father and Son (although this second point seems difficult to reconcile with the belief that the Spirit is a distinct, co-equal member of the Trinity). The stress on equality, however, was never understood as detracting from a certain primacy of the Fatherfrom whom the other two persons derive, even if they do so eternally. For an adequate understanding of the trinitarian conception of God, the distinctions among the persons of the Trinity must not become so sharp that there seems to be a plurality of gods, nor may these distinctions be swallowed up in an undifferentiated monism.

    The doctrine of the Trinity may be understood on different levels. On one level, it is a means of construing the word God in Christian discourse. God is not a uniquely Christian word, and it needs specific definition in Christian theology. This need for a specifically Christian definition is already apparent in the New Testament, where Paul says, "there are many 'gods' and many 'lords'yet for us there is one God, the Father ..., and one Lord, Jesus Christ" (1 Corinthians 8:5-6). These words constitute the beginning of a process of clarification and definition, of which the end product is the doctrine of the Trinity. At another level, the doctrine may be seen as a transcript of Christian experience: the God of the Hebrew tradition had become known in a new way, first in the person of Christ, and then in the Spirit that moved in the Church. On a third, speculative level of understanding, the doctrine reveals the dynamism of the Christian conception of Godinvolving notions of a source, a coming forth, and a return (primordial, expressive, and unitive Being). In this sense, the Christian doctrine has parallels both in philosophy (the 19th-century German philosopher G. W. F. Hegel's Absolute) and in other religions (the Trimurti of Hinduism).
    ------------------------------------------------

    WorldBookOnline.com:

    Trinity:

    Trinity TRIHN uh tee, is a term used to express the belief that in the one God there are three Divine Personsthe Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (or Holy Ghost). The idea is based on various passages in the New Testament. Belief in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit was defined by early general councils of the Christian church. The Council of Nicaea in 325 and the Council of Constantinople in 381 declared that the Son is of the same essence as the Father, and that the three Persons are one God. The East and West branches of the church later disagreed as to how the Holy Spirit proceeds from the other Divine Persons. The Eastern Church held that the Son comes from the Father, and that the Spirit comes from the Father through the Son. The Western Church held that the Spirit comes from Father and Son together. A special activity has been ascribed to each of the Persons. The Father creates, the Son became human, and the Spirit makes holy.

    ______________
    Contributor:
    Joseph M. Hallman, Ph.D., Professor of Theology, University of St. Thomas.

  • czarofmischief
    czarofmischief

    The trinity is a very interesting way of looking at God. JW's reject it out of hand.

    My conception of the Trinity is that "perfect" or non-sinful sapient creatures have a level of connection with Jehovah ("The Father") that we cannot fathom. We sinful creatures must pray, or willfully communicate with the Father through Jesus ("The Son") by an action of divine power. But I think that perfect creatures, like Jesus the man, can communicate with the Father in a more complete and perfect way, without even words to translate the divine thoughts. Thus, to a sinful outsider, it could seem like the two minds were completely united.

    Think on this: Adam and Eve had to take an action to sever the contact with the Father. Until then, they and Jehovah were "one" in a sense that we cannot understand.

    Thus, many personalities can be united in perfection, without losing a bit of individuality or free will.

    Many theories of the Trinity demand three personalities, because three is a number of ancient pagan significance. Other than that, there is no basis for thinking that the holy spirit has a personality.

    CZAR

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