Need help for someone hurting by JW rules.

by BeelzeDub 23 Replies latest jw friends

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  BeelzeDub

  Thanks for the comments. Just to clarify one thing. After he admited to being unfaithfull in front of two other witnesses (3 total) she went to the elders. When they tried to call him in to ask him about it is when he wrote a letter to the elders saying that he didn't really mean it. He was not serious. He avoids all calls and has not set foot in the KH since he sent the letter. So it is obvious to the elders that he is avoiding them. They have sent him letters and he refuses to accept them.

  Now I ask, would anybody in their right mind ever admit to being unfaithfull if it were not true? Even the elders had to answer this with a NO.

  Anyway back to the story, the denial letter threw the elders for a loop, they never had that happen before so the wrote to the WTS and they were the ones that said his letter stands. So even though she has so much cercomstancial evidence, as well as an admission with 3 witnesses... because Mother said so they will not back down.

  This has been going on for some time, during the last CO visit he could not even defend the WTS possision that his denial letter should over ride her two witnesses.... but since Mother said it they "just had to wait on Jehovah" tm (puke)

  I helped her write a letter that reviewed the whole two witness rule and why at this point it should be left up to her own concience but they would not accept it even though they agreed that the points in it were valid.

  What is very sad is that in her own heart, she has a clear concience with god on this matter, but these men will not allow her to follow her own conceince, they must dictate to her what her conceince is even though they can't back it up with anything in the bible.

  I will not stand by and watch these men hurt inocent people like this anymore, I will speak out, and for doing so, I will become their next target, like a big buck on opening day of dear season they will come hunt me down and spiritually kill me off to shut me up.

  -B.D.
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  JT

  the answer to the question depends upon what your friend plans on doing.

  1. does she intend to stay in the jw, if so then she really has very little choice if her desire is to be a good jw for the elders rep the org and they are allowed to use thier judgement( we know that they lack that) but the problem is if she wants to remain a jw, it is these very types of rules that being a jw is really all about,

  others will always determine your worth-

  but on the other hand

  2. she has no desire to be a jw, then she is free to do as she pleases.

  for anyone who remains in the wt they must realize that they are submitting themselves to such GOOFY RULES as has been explained to her and her happiness is of no concern.

  this is the reason all of us are here today on this site, we got tired of such bible based, god directed rules and decided to look into them and see were these and such other rules from god or based on the bible.

  and what we found has resulted in a freedom from men that i dare say many of us never could have imagined.

  i feel sorry for your friend for when she realizes like many of us that we were merely working for an American Corp that sells books and we allowed our Employer the WT to dictate every singel aspect of our life she is going to be Pissed like the rest of us are now

  can you imagine working for Safeway stores and the manager is able to tell you who and when and what grounds you can get a divorce and remarry on- no one can even imagine working for a company that has that type of influence over our personal lives, yet as a jw that is exactly what she is doing right now

  my suggestion is INSTEAD of fighting the elders AKA THE CHEESE CRACKER MEN- help her if she is willing to know the real deal

  for if she remarries and tries to remain a jw without taking the time to see what she was involved in

  she will remarry this guy , get dfed and then go back to the meeting to try and be reinstated, she will be spit on and if she is reinstated she will more than likely continue to be spit on and feeling guilty.

  the best thing she can do is if the man loves her and she him and they no longer want to be jw, then they should marry and go on with their lives, what the elders do or don't do should not be of any concern-

  but the mere fact that you have asked on this site WHAT SHOULD SHE DO in my view shows she still WANTS THE APPROVAL OF THE CHEESE CRACKER MEN and that is sad

  think about this, if you were to pose this sitution to anyone on your job or the folks next door who are not jw THEY WOULD THINK SHE IS A DAMN FOOL.

  and the reason why is nonjw can't comphrend how you and i and your friend could possible give up this type of personal choice to some guy who hands out crackers at Walmart for a living

  as i look back at all the things we as jw submitted out selves to under the guise of IT IS FOR JEHOVAH we were indeed duped HOODWINKED AND BAMBOOZLED

  If you truly want to help your friend then help here get the hell out of wt, but to ask us how she can be happy and please the elders at the same time THERE IS NO SUCH A THING
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  ugg

  she is afraid of losing her children/grandchildren....do what it takes to keep them if her heart cannot deal with it....dump the basturd and move on with life....do what ever it takes to achieve this!!! i so understand!!!

  sending her hugs and lots of love....truly sad deal...
• 

  BeelzeDub

  JT,

  She does not care about the "Cheese Cracker Men". Like myself and many other it is the family that keeps one from making a complete and total break. A fade away would be the preferable choice but with the option to be free to remarry (no neccessaraly a JW) in the future.

  Do you understand the family issue here JT?

  I would love nothing more than to tell them to take this job and shove it.... but is that worth loosing all your family... especially your kids and grandkids? Not as easy as you make it sound... even if it is what you would like to do in your heart.

  Needless to say, her treatment by these men who at the same time turn a blind eye to the antics of her ex husband has opened her eyes some to how christain this organization really is, and how much they place themselves between man and god.
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  alamb

  Give her my e-mail. I went through it also at the risk of losing it all. But what I gained........myself, a life, and true friends.
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  Iwasyoungonce

  Beezledub,

  It is that simple though it does not seem easy. The real fear is not that your family might or, might not shun you. The real fear is that "if" you throw down the gauntlet and say this is who I am. If you love me you will accept me for who I am and what I believe. If they say NO we will not accept you for who you are and this is who you have to be for us to love you, or even admit that you exist. If they do that, then you have to choose who you are real too, them, or you. Who is in control of you, them or you. Until you face this you do not really know who you are.

  Beezledub real family never makes you choose. Real family accepts you as you are you are no puppet strings. It does not mean that you can do whatever whims your fancy but it does mean that they respect your authority over you. It seems most JW's rasied as such from birth have only known how to be a puppet. It's sad. But, you can choose to be who you want to be. But you have to want to want.

  The real fear is that you might cave if you stand up for yourself. I have found that once you stand up for yourself it is quite easy. This is a game of poker. You have all the aces. They don't even have two of a kind. But they have one mean bluff.

  Leave a bull shit family and be real; The family that replaces the fake one is the one that is real. That is who were always the real family. And the bonus is you can be real, and you can be happy.

  No doubt there are the people who like the jw life. They like external controlers because then the feel free of personal responsibility. There will always be these groups. But there is only one of you Beezledub; And, there is only one of your friend.
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  DJ

  Hi Jayson,

  I looked up the scripture in Matt. that you used and my bibles say 'eunuch' where you have man. There is a huge difference in the whole meaning, depending on which word is accurate. I'm not sure which word is right, are you?

  BD,

  Like I said before.....if she has witnesses that they require and he changed his tune last minute...I'm sorry but the issue is a done deal for me. No man in their right mind would make up such a thing to tell his own wife. What a pitiful joke. As far as the family goes.......Has she considered just leveling with them about the issue. I would think that most people would see her side. The wt is wrong as usual and I think that maybe this should be brought up for a family discussion. This woman's children have the right to know what the wt is demanding of her. She has to listen to her conscience not the wt's. They are so embroiled in lies and deceit that it still amazes me that they feel that they have the right to tell this woman anything at all. If your friend had a concern about 'speaking poorly' of her husband by revealing the issue to her kids.......maybe she could pose it as a hypothetical and feel them out. She doesn't have to bad mouth her husband but her kids will get the idea anyway. Just a thought?
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  DJ

  One more thing, I find this story incredible. What does this man have to say for himself? What reason could he possibly give for wanting to disgrace his wife this way? Does he really believe that he should be believed now? What was his point?
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  BeelzeDub

  DJ

  I think talking with her children one on one would be a good thing at this point. They are aware of what has gone on and they are sympathetic to her. However when a young daughter is under the control of her JW husband who may insist that she not talk to her mother, this could create a problem for her.

  What does this man have to say for himself?

  He says nothing for himself, he is a coward and will not meet with the elders even though they would like to talk to him. Yet he claims he is inocent. When his own children try and adress it with him, he cut them out of his life and has no contact with even his own children or grandchildren.

  What reason could he possibly give for wanting to disgrace his wife this way?

  The man is a coward, he cares only about how he looks to others, even at the expense of his own family. A classic narcicist who thinks only of himself, and of anyone who does not believe his side of the story, he cuts them off. Sad, very sad.

  Does he really believe that he should be believed now?

  Good question. The elders did not really believe him, but since they had never had this situation come up before the decided to write the society about it. Then came down the legalistic order that his denial would stand, so now they have put themselves in the possision where they can't back down because God (aka the WTS) has spoken.

  What was his point?

  True to the WT tradition his point is to protect how HE looks and to keep himself from getting disfellowshiped.

  BD
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  Iwasyoungonce

  DJ,

  About you question

  "I looked up the scripture in Matt. that you used and my bibles say 'eunuch' where you have man. There is a huge difference in the whole meaning, depending on which word is accurate. I'm not sure which word is right, are you?"

  Of the Bible's l have "Holman" (Old King James) and "Nelson/Regency" (New Kings James) both use the word "eunuch" (castrated) which I used "Webster's Encyclopedia Dictionary" to define "eunuch." The "Catholic Rainbow Inc." version uses "man." But I don't understand your question.

  I hate academic legalism of scripture. I have less use for it than tp. For me it is like debating the definition of the word "is."
  
  I feel and search for the "spirit" of the scripture. I don't like lawyers of scripture. (Not a barb to you in any way.)
  
  My points with the original poster of this thread was that for so long males have acted like the Bible was their exclusive playground and women exist to cook clean and sexually gratify. I say that is bull shit. I want a partner in life. I do not want a quasi-slave. If I were Adam when the snake came around Eve would have been off with me naming animals and not all alone.
  
  Divorce is a tragedy. I see It like a death. It is a death. It is not just a matter crime or approved/justified. It seems there are always two forces at work in life. (About this issue) on one side is the "I divorce you I divorce you I divorce you" side. Here divorce for any reason. On the other side is the "Moses-ists" that say only if you have sex with someone else can the (a) bad marriage finally be laid to rest.
  
  Both trivialize marriage.
  
  If you divorce is it a sin. Yep..And a tragedy. But it is a sin like all the others. Including having adultery in your heart.
  
  I am not a theologian nor do I claim to be. But, I do not look down upon people when their marriage fails. I try to comfort them. It is a time to grieve not judge.
  
  These are my beliefs about these things.
  
  Following them has given be a beautiful marriage that I cherish with a wonderful partner and mate.

  Am I clear as mud DJ?
  
  Jay