Questions for Creationists

by IronGland 184 Replies latest jw friends

  • Tashawaa
    Tashawaa

    I'm a newbie, so I assume other more experienced posters have dealt with this issue with you Jim, but you make very blanket, black & white statements.

    Your statement "Turning everyone away from God has failed in bringing peace and a life without fear."

    OK, so religion has done a wonderful job!!! Where have I been hiding... the Muslims, Christians, Hindus, etc. have all brought about peace and a life without fear.

    My understanding of human nature is that everyone is out there trying to "convert" everyone else. TV evanglists, door-to-door, informal (just ask the BA at my work), missionaries... I've yet to have an athiest knock on my door to "turn me away from God".

    If posing questions is destroying faith... God shouldn't have "created" us with the ability to ask.

    Personally, I think he should have went with the "robot" idea. Less trouble.

  • rem
    rem

    Kenneson,

    I like your non-anthropocentric approach, but your last question dissapoints me. For some reason you don't keep on that track that you started on. The reason snakes evolved poisons (actually venom) is pretty obvious from an evolutionary standpoint: because their venoms aide them in catching prey. Certain snakes with venom were more successful in catching certain types of prey than other snakes that were fighting for survival in the same ecological niche. The venomous snakes became more successful (reproduced more) and the venom evolved to be more and more toxic. More toxic venom = easier to subdue prey. The cycle continues.

    Why not non-venomous? Well, there are non-venomous snakes. They are all well adapted to their own specific environmental niches.

    The AIDS virus is just like any other virus... a bit of DNA that uses a host to reproduce. Unfortunately, some viruses happen to do nasty things to their hosts. They don't mean to hurt their hosts. They are just trying to reproduce just like every other organism. Kinda like humans.

    Jim,

    You asked what's the good of evolution. Did you know that most modern medicine relies on the theory of evolution to make better drugs and antibiotics? Did you know that evolution is the reason why the flu and cold changes every year and why doctors come up with a new shot annually? The theory of evolution is even used in electronics and computers to generate better code or solve difficult mathematical problems. Evolution helps conservationists to understand how to keep animals from going extinct and helps zoo keepers and ranchers to understand how to keep their stock healthy by not interbreeding the animals too closely. Evolution helps us to understand the genetic code so we can genetically engineer foods. It also goes a step further and helps us to understand the consequences of doing so. Do you know how many starving people evolution can help feed. Do you know how many lives are saved every year due to research based on Evolution?

    There is much good with Evolution.

    I'm not sure what your point about turning everyone away from god not bringing peace is about. I'm not sure that that has ever been accomplished.

    Again, it seems to me that believers are the ones who are hopless and lead a life of fear. Believers almost always believe that this world is so bad that only god can save us from ourselves. Nonbelievers, such as myself, seem to be much more optimistic about life. That's the good right there.

    rem

  • IronGland
    IronGland

    Why does 'good' have to come out of it for it to be true? Isn't satisfying intellectual curiosity good? Personally, i'm not too fond of Nuclear Weapons, does that falsify atomic theory?

  • Tashawaa
    Tashawaa

    OK I'm confused ... Ken you wrote:

    Tashawaa,

    Again, remove God from the picture. Now you tell us why there are poisonous snakes?

    in response to my post.. I assumed the answer was to "combat disease" (the poison), which was what my comment refered to.

    Just to be clear. I like poisonous snakes. I also like non-poisonous snakes... and sharks, lions and bears (oh my!!!). All these vicious, violent, meat-eating animals were all created prior to "man's fall". I guess that was my point.

    I think they "adapted" over llllooooonnnngggg periods of time, in ways that helped them to survive.... just like us. Oopppss I have a craving for a banana, excuse me.

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    Another viewpoint:

    ""EVOLUTION - Belief that your car will improve over time due to random chance. Belief that a lightening strike might just upgrade your new computer. Belief that X-ray technicians should stand in *front* of medical shields in order to receive more cellular mutations, thus improving themselves and their future children. Belief that someday, somehow, somewhere they will finally find some kind of real scientific evidence to prop up that religion, yea - that spiritual deception known as either: godless or weak-god evolution.

    After all, we're improving all by ourselves anyway, right? Just look at the advancements made in countries which wholeheartedly embraced evolutionary principles: Soviet Russia (communism assumes evolution - no God to have to answer to), Nazi Germany (evolution's believed "Master Race" concept), and Communist China, among others. Evolutionary beliefs in practice, whether for your car, computer, your body, or a society - don't work. And there are still zero transition fossils.

    Remember that built-in variation within a particular kind of animal or plant shows instead wise initial design, correct? For example, a car with headlights and wipers indicates that the designer built-in variability to handle times of rain and driving at night, they are not however somehow "further proof" that the car just fell together by accident. Variability, within limits, like we see within life on Earth, shows design. (Does your car improve if you place extra parts on it at random?)

    Evolution is a set of beliefs regarding the generation and propagation of matter and life without an overseeing God to have to answer to. Today evolutionists put their faith in abiogenesis. (And their religious belief that life came together by chance is well illustrated with great fictitious examples, isn't it?) They used to teach the children about spontaneous generation. "The Genesis record can't be true, it just can't be," they believed, and they thus taught others. Now they teach that "abiogenesis" - life without God's initial spark - just must be true. It has to be, otherwise repentance before God is a logical step; and that is considered unacceptable.

    Your heart is beating for a while longer. You have limited time in which to figure out what it's all about. Then comes the judgment. Don't be deceived by the loudest voices contending that "spontaneous generation" ...errr, I mean - "abiogenesis" just must have occurred once upon a time, all by itself. Evolution stands against scientific principles, it is mathematically impossible, and it is at its root a spiritual deception to encourage you to make the wrong life choices. ""

    Edited by - thichi on 1 November 2002 19:46:48

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    Keep the faith Bro: you are not alone!

    Edited by - thichi on 1 November 2002 19:53:53

  • Tashawaa
    Tashawaa

    ""Evolution stands against scientific principles, it is mathematically impossible, and it is at its root a spiritual deception to encourage you to make the wrong life choices. "" ThiChi

    Interesting.

    When I was an active witness, and pioneer, I believed it was Satan's snare of false religion that was the spiritual deception encouraging everyone to make the wrong life choice...

  • rem
    rem

    ThiChi,

    Your caricature of evolution is pretty ridiculous. The reason people don't do such things is because doing so would be a misapplication of evolutionary theory and would not benefit anyone. Anyone who thinks that evolutionary theory teaches such things has a complete misunderstanding of what evolution is. Thus, his or her 'viewpoint' is flawed and worthless.

    rem

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    REM: You to to think outside the box, bro.........Over the past two centuries, researchers in Europe and elsewhere have found anatomically modern human skeletal remains and artifacts in geological contexts extending to the Pliocene and earlier. In the late nineteenth century, these discoveries attained wide circulation among archeologists and researchers in allied fields (geology, paleontology, anthropology). At this early point in the history of archeology, a fixed scheme of human evolution had not yet emerged, and researchers were able to approach the evidence of extreme human antiquity with little theoretical bias. With the discovery of Pithecanthropus (Java man) in the late nineteenth century and the discovery of Australopithecus in the early twentieth century, archeologists and others were finally able to construct a credible and widely accepted theoretical picture of human origins, with the anatomically modern human type arriving rather late on the scene. This caused the earlier evidence for extreme human antiquity to be dropped from active discourse, and eventually forgotten. In the late twentieth century, finds that could be taken as evidence for extreme human antiquity continue to be made. But archeologists often interpret them to fit within the now generally accepted scheme of human evolution. It is therefore possible that commitment to a particular evolutionary scheme has resulted in a process of knowledge filtration, whereby a large set of archeological evidence has dropped below the horizon of cognition. This filtering, although unintentional, has left current researchers with an incomplete data set for building and rebuilding our ideas about human origins.

    In 1849, gold was discovered in the gravels of ancient riverbeds on the slopes of the Sierra Nevada Mountains in central California, drawing hordes of rowdy adventurers to places like Brandy City, Last Chance, Lost Campe, You Bet, and Poker Flat. Occasionally, the miners would find stone artifacts, and more rarely, human fossils.

    The majority of gold-bearing gravels were laid down in stream channels during the Eocene and Early Oligocene. During the Oligocene, Miocene, and Pliocene, volcanic activity in the same region covered some of the auriferous gravels with deposits of rhyolite, andesite, and latite.

    In particular, widespread andesitic mudflows and conglomerates were deposited during the Miocene. These attained a considerable thickness, varying from more than 3,000 feet along the crest of the Sierras to 500 feet in the foothills. The volcanic flows were so extensive that they almost completely buried the bedrock landscape of the northern Sierra Nevada mountain region.

    Over the course of time, rivers carved deep channels up to a couple of thousand feet below the level of the prevolcanic gravels. This allowed Gold Rush miners to reach the auriferous gravels by digging horizontal tunnels into the sides of the channels. The advanced stone tools found in these tunnels could be from Eocene to Pliocene in age. California State Geologist J. D. Whitney concluded that modern man existed in California previous to the cessation of volcanic activity in the Sierra Nevada.

    Edited by - thichi on 1 November 2002 20:0:14

    Edited by - thichi on 1 November 2002 20:2:12

  • rem
    rem

    What, exactly are you trying to say, ThiChi? That you believe modern man existed in california millions of years ago? Or that Gold miners are reliable archeologists? Or that scientific understanding doesn't progress over time?

    Do you know how ignorant you sound?

    rem

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