by apocalypse 46 Replies latest watchtower bible
Joseph Malik,
Thank you for responding to my post, it is evidence of your Christian love.
You said:
Perhaps there is no missing material
The missing material I mentioned is not really missing but placed by Luke in chapter 17 rather than chapter 21. It is this placement and the why of this placement that stirs great interest. imo
Again, thank you for the response.
IW
IW,
Yes I understand, but Luke wrote things literally and in order, Luke 1:3, even as he claimed while Matthew and Mark were interpretive when they developed their Gospels. That is the point I demonstrated. So Luke would have recorded these words when our Lord actually said them but Matt and Mark would have put them in their historical context in a prophecy about the coming of Christ and the establishment of His Kingdom, describing the faith during such a time. This is not a problem but because they did this it alters the meaning of the literal message our Lord delivered in Luke and also eliminates events in 70 CE, 1914, and all such views common in most explanations. Such events as Jerusalems destruction only seem to fit into such a literal time. When such years are brought in and the scriptures forced to fit them then the meaning and historical content of Matt and Mark is lost as our Lords return or coming will be physical and literal as shown in Acts 1:11 and He did not return at such a generation to fulfill such texts. The texts therefore are all symbolic, prophetic parables and should not have been taken literally or interpreted as already fulfilled. This is also true of all the texts though Matt chapter 25, chapter 24 simply being one of many in this series of Kingdom parables. But so much has already been written to the contrary that this simply does not come through at first glance at least.
Joseph
I would first like to say that after reading EVERY word of this thread, the first comment posted was a put down regarding the length of this thread. That really saddened me. I read every single word, and did not even for a moment think to myself Geez this is a long post. I was extremely wrapped up into the information, and for the poster to get slammed like that was completely uncalled for.
I would like to thank you for all your hard work and time it took for you to put all this together, to help people like me get a different viewpoint on these scriptures, as the only viewpoint I've ever had on this topic amongst others has been that of my jw upbringing. Being born and raised a Dub, their interpretation of these scriptures is all I've EVER known. I'm desperately "groping" for better and clearer understanding of God's Word, and threads like this are so incredibly important to me. Please don't stop them, even if you are attacked for the length of them. These are greatly needed, for me personally as well as so many others like me. Please keep up your hard work, it's greatly appreciated.
Just being able to read your verse by verse discussion of these scriptures brought tears to my eyes so much so that I had trouble being able to see through my tears. I've tried so hard to clear my mind from all the fear of the Last Days taught me as a Dub, and I've been wondering and perhaps even worrying about the threat of nuclear war, if it could be fulfillment of the "great tribulation" and what would happen next. Posts like this are so helpful to me. Thank you again for all the work it took for you to put this together. I look forward with anticipation to further threads like this one.
You make me want to start reading my Bible again, which I haven't done in years since leaving the org in '95. Just today I bought "The Message" by Eugene Peterson, because I want to start reading and REALLY learning truth about God and His Word.
((((((((Well deserved hugs to you))))))))))
Joseph Malik,
Thank you for the response. Please may I ask you one more question?
May I ask: Why did Luke place in Luke 17 (instead of Luke 21) what Matthew placed in Matthew 24? In other words, is there any significance to Luke's not including those scriptures when speaking about the end of Jerusalem?
IW
Lin,
I am sorry that you took it as a slam. The way I try to respond is usually so detailed that a response to it was impossible. Only a small part can be covered and the rest would get lost in the process. I am sorry if any of my comments upset you. Sometimes posts just drown me out and I cannot deal with them so I do not bother.
Joseph
IW,
Luke already covered the material in his gospel at the time or Lord actuall said them so there was no reason to repeat it. I thought that I explained this? Perhaps not. Matt put all such historical references to the coming of Christ in one place. So such kingdom parables flow together in Matt. but not in Luke. Take John's Gospel. He could see the other three gospels and feathered in his writing to fill in material deleted in all three them so that his writings are unique with only enough texts in common to match things up in time. Pages and pages of fill, really important material not even mentioned in the others. Does this help?
Joseph
Joseph Malik,
Please bear with me just a minute longer.
Luke 21, what century is it speaking of?
Matthew 24, what century is it speaking of?
IW
I think studies of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 are always interesting. I was unable to read all of the initial post only because of eye strain, but it is interesting.
IW,
We must be on line at the same time and working in real time. Wish I knew the answer to your question. It is a time the day and hour no one knows but the Father. This is true for both of them. That is when the Gentile Times end in Luke. And this is also when: 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elects sake those days shall be shortened in Matt. Let's hope it is our century.
Joseph
Joseph, my comment was referring to Gumby, not you hon. I have no problem with the various discussions within the thread, and even disagreement, but Gumby made the slam immediately that the thread was too long and that it's why not too many hits or viewers have come to this thread. I wasn't referring to you, ok?
