The "keystone" of the Watchtower.

by thinker 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Farkel

  : The question is Fark, are the JWs that are left smart enough to put 2 + 2 together and realize that without 1914 the 'faithful & descreet slave' loses all authority? I doubt it. I bet they could ditch 1914 and not lose too many JWs. They would just go right on believing FDS=God.

  Possibly, but that would probably apply only to the younger ones. The ones who've been around for several decades or longer would react in the very same way others of their tenue reacted over the 1995 "This Generation" change. They would bolt.

  For all practical purposes, 1914 has lost all meaning towards the relevence of urgency to engulf oneself in Watchtower activities. Now that the new millennium has arrived, all the promises and hope generated from past decades has been dashed. There is no reward of deliverence to look forward to in this lifetime, except some vague "real soon now" mantra which is meaningless.

  Dumping 1914 completely WOULD stir up a lot of talk and study of past Watchtower exegesis for those dubs who have any braincells left. Considering that the society has inextricably linked 1914 and 1919 together, dubs would quickly realize the society's claim to special status as God's sole spokesman would have virtually zero merit if 1914 was totally dropped. I don't think its going to happen for a long, long time.

  It's interesting to note that the whole mismash of the 607-1919 chronology requires one to accept that the ending of the" Gentile Times" is directly related to the "Time of the End" even though nowhere are they mentioned remotely close to each other in scripture. The 607-1914 dogma requires one to believe that "times" are "lunar years" having only 360 days in each year, which are in turn, "days of years" in which the days in those "days of years" are each one year long. However, the 1914-1918 dogma requires one to believe that "3 1/2" times are years only and solar years at that, and the 1918-1919 dogma requires one to believe that "days" are just that: days!

  And using this crap of reasoning they expect the world to believe they are God's ONLY mouthpiece on earth? Pfffflloooooooooooott!

  What a tangled web they weave when they first try to deceive, eh?

  Farkel

  Edited by - Farkel on 2 November 2002 15:20:41
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  gumby

  There is no reward of deliverence to look forward to in this lifetime, except some vague "real soon now" mantra which is meaningless.

  Meaningless for sure. Colledge, planning for retirement, investing, ALL the things that were once taboo are now openly practiced by most all dubs. All the shit I couldn't do, they now do.....bastards!!!
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  thinkers wife

  SPECULATION!!!!!!!!! Although all of you made some very valid points, based on the JW mindset, you are all going to die forever for speculating.

  But seriously, aren't we all in different stages of withdrawal from the mind controling cult? What we all really wish for, is for every current JW to wake up and be able to see the fallacy of their ruling body. Sometimes we tend to speculate at what will make them falter.

  IMO, the only thing that will make them falter is for each individual to have their own doubts and gradually withdraw. Every person's style of withdrawal will be just like us, individual. I unfortunately see no mass exodus. Just one small person at a time. There may times when it is more indivuals than usual based on the gross mistakes of the GB. But still not a mass exodus.

  Oh if only someone could think of something monumental enough. But it certainly is interesting reading all the viewpoints and realizing how many really intelligent people are already out!!

  TW
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  thinker

  Good points everyone!

  Garybuss,

  You are correct, I had forgotten the change in "heaven vs paradise" taught by the WT. Interesting what you say about disbeliefs. I hadn't considered that before. No doctrines only non-doctrines.

  Farkel,

  I love how your mind works. But how many JWs can keep up with that line of thinking?

  Concerning the FDS being God's channel. What does that really mean to the average JW? It doesn't mean the GB is infallible. I think JWs believe the GB not because of 1914, but rather because they want the reward of the promised Paradise. It's more emotional than logical, which is why it's so hard to sway them with logic and facts. Also, according to the WT, the FDS has been somewhere on earth since Jesus was here, so what's 1914 got to do with it?

  To me the whole 1914 thing is illogical. God sends a coded dream, not to any holy land prophet, but through a pagan king???!!! Get real.
• 

  hooberus

  3) Everybody gets resurrected for a second chance

  4) Paradise on earth

  You can use #3 as a great witnessing strategy. For the JW who believes that he may die or that has family members whom he believes may die before armageeddon, their ONLY HOPE for eternal life is to be resurrected since they have no immortal soul. Since according to their doctrine man is basically only a body, then according to REASON the only way for then to be the SAME PERSON in the resurrection is if their ORIGINAL BODY is resurrected (albeit restored to health).

  Now for the punch line: The Watchtower teaches that the original body will NEVER be resurrected, but will ROT IN THE GRAVE FOREVER. The Watchtower teaches that Jehovah will form a new body which never existed before and will memory stamp this CLONE with memories similar to those of the original witness who REMAINS DEAD FOREVER in the grave. if you can get a witness to see this (which I have done) it is DEVASTATING, and will cause a serious questioning of eternal life in the Watchtower in his mind. I believe that if done properly this can be one of the most effective, least offensive witnessing strategies.
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  hooberus

  thinker said:

  "I think JWs believe the GB not because of 1914, but rather because they want the reward of the promised Paradise. It's more emotional than logical, which is why it's so hard to sway them with logic and facts."

  I think your right thinker as the reason many people join the WTBTS is for eternal life. If you show them that the WTBTS doesn't actually provide eternal life, but instead an ETERNAL GRAVE you might have better results than a frontal attack against WT authority.
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  Farkel

  thinker,

  : Concerning the FDS being God's channel. What does that really mean to the average JW? It doesn't mean the GB is infallible.

  No, it doesn't mean the GB is infallible and the GB never implied what it did. It means something far more important than that: it gives the GB absolute authority over all the JW's lives in doctrine, practices and policy. THAT sort of power is far more important than claimed infallibility, because in the case of infallibility claims, the GB would have to answer for their lies and mistakes. The way it's set up today the GB have it both ways: respect and near-worship as God's spokesmen and not having to be responsible for anything they say and do. It's the perfect power trip. It's the perfect way to run a pet Cult.

  Farkel
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  A Paduan

  There's a phrase in 2 Maccabees "But for you there will be no resurrection to life" It's not surprising that they don't include that book in their bible.
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  garybuss

  
  
  When I was a believer, I revered the Governing Body as if they were inerrant but I held a counter belief that they were just human and subject to making mistakes and issuing new light to correct those mistakes. Both equal, both in conflict with the other.
  
  It is similar to the abused child's love and equal hate for the abusive parent. One voice says the parent is to be loved and trusted but deep inside is another voice that says all is not well, beware. Both beliefs exist side by side and the person functions in the context she is familiar with unable to imagine any other life.
  
  gb
  
  
  

  The Way I See it http://www.freeminds.org/buss/buss.htm
  
  
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  joenobody

  I am glad that the carrot of "Paradise" that is dangled in front of Witnesses has been addressed. I often reasoned when struggling to come to terms with being a Dub that most of them wouldn't preach door-to-door were it not for the big reward they were to receive. If we had a responsibility to our Creator to please him and serve him out of indebtedness, but there was no Paradise at the end of things, how many would be serving?

  I concluded: Not Many.

  It floored me how much emphasis was placed on selling converts on Paradise (how long did we use that red "Live Forever" book?) and not responsibility in some greater court-case being tried between the Creator and Satan. That's when I came to realize that it was all salesmanship and nothing more...