A Time To Lay Down Our Arms, Perhaps?

by Englishman 30 Replies latest jw friends

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  Englishman

  Hi all!

  Having had a wonderful week away with Her Ladyship, I feel refreshed and invigorated and ready for some interesting exchanges and opinions via this site!

  I noticed Amazings admirable post where he seeks reconciliation with former adversaries. Well done Mr A; long may it continue!

  However, it does seem to me that many of our disagreements could be avoided if we all took some time to try to understand the cultural differences between our various countries. Many times I have felt indignant at some of the exchanges that have taken place here, only to realise later that what I as a Brit consider to be rude and offensive, is regarded as being outspoken and honest in the USA. Maybe that's the reason we bond with certain posters more than others. If there is a disagreement taking place between a Brit and an American I will find the Brits viewpoint much easier to understand, simply because he is operating from a familiar background that I can relate to. I have to try much harder to see the US viewpoint, although it's generally worth the extra effort in the end.http://www.geocities.com/princessjuls02/USUK.html

  I think that Simon has his hands full running a site such as this, especially when we consider the emotional diversity that appears here as well as the different nationalities and social customs that are in force too. It's hardly surprising that he's been in the firing line recently as what to him, is a reasonable and normal Brit reaction, succeeds only in winding up a transatlantic poster to the hilt. What to one is an expression of opinion, is, to the other, outright provocation.There after, both Brit and outraged poster are totally bewildered at the others inability to see each others point of view. The outraged poster tries to express his viewpoint more succinctly, the stoical Brit just wishes said poster would call it a day and talk about something else. Eventually, frustration sets in as both parties assume the other is a total bigot / control freak / feminist / jerk / whatever. Sadly, if they met face to face, they could well be the best of friends.

  So, with all of that in mind, I intend to make an effort to be more understanding of our differences from this moment on and look at a persons cultural background, rather than simply at the words that they say.

  Anyone else want to join me?

  Englishman.
• 

  ballistic

  The reasons emoticons were born was to fill the gap left by the lack of body language and facial expression which makes up 90% of our off-line communication. Unfortunately, this: just doesn't cut it when it comes to expressing tone of voice, or any other subtle inflections of voice as discussed in the theocratic ministry school guide book.

  What any member of an on-line community will tell you is that the problem does not just cross international boundaries, but exists where ever there is a misunderstanding caused by this void of visual feed-back leaving one at a loss as to the writers intentions.

  I have seen it time and time again, posts slightly misunderstood blowing into a fight. I agree with eman that it is possible to re-read posts and make the extra effort to show tollerance and give the writer the benefit of the doubt where necessary. However, I just want to say one thing which may be controversial and that is there are more 'disturbances' on this site than many others on varying topics unrelated to JW. Ask yourself why this is. Could it be related to the fact that we cover a huge number of very personal, pertinent questions probing the very meaning of life and how people run their lives. Is it not suprising that we have a constant supply of threads which have the potential to arouse emotion? Add to this a sprinkling of antagonists who find what we say offensive from the JW perspective and your recipe is complete.
• 

  searcher

  Right and Right.

  searcher.
• 

  ozziepost

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  To Eman and HL,

  Welcome Home!

  From Ozzie and Mrs Ozzie

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  Pathofthorns

  Asside from political viewpoints, I feel very few of the disagreements on the board are due to cultural misunderstandings. It would be nice to believe this, but I think in reality they are due to human nature and our moments when we abandon personal reasonableness. There seems to be a dark side to human nature that both loves and hates a good "fight" and there seems to be a spirit of destructive competition that is left over from our days in the WT.

  While misunderstandings do occur frequently, I think more often we deliberately drop things in our posts to rock the boat. Some of these things make for interesting discussions, but when they degenerate into personal attacks like name calling, the discussion is no longer reasonable and rational or productive.

  Mistakes are inevitable by all of us, and failure to acknowledge our mistakes and offer an apology or continuing to defend an unjustifiable position on our part inevitably prolongs the misery and we often lose our friends.

  It is easy to forget that we are generally on the same side although diverse in opinion and belief. Few things (if any) are worth losing sleep over on this discussion board and fewer still are worth losing "friends" (if online acquaintances can be called such).

  I think your post is a noble effort Eman but the reality is that it is much more difficult to put into practice. The blunt reality is that not all choose to be reasonable and that can make things "interesting" sometimes

  Path
• 

  jst2laws

  Hello Eman,

  Glad you are back. I truly sympathize with the point you make. As Path pointed out this cultural difference is probably not the only factor here, but I don't feel you were say it was. Thanks for pointing out something we should be aware of while we feel our blood begin to boil.

  As to 'rudeness' I as an American wonder why others can't differ in a civil way. Even within the US our perception varies tremendously. I lived six years in New York City where the blast of car horns was as much a part of life as breathing NY's poluted air. But in southern United States you are a RUDE SOB if you use your horn in anything other than an emergency.

  fI truly sympathize with Simon. Simon gives us this place to play and some are angry because he tells us 'have fun but don't hurt anyone'. He and his wife spend a lot of time providing this free gift and then have to endure attacks from disgruntled gift recievers. Thanks, Simon, for your perseverence (wow, haven't used that word for a while).

  Thanks Eman for being here.

  Jst2laws
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  Simon

  I never cease to be amazed at how some people find it impossible to differentiate between disagreeing and arguing.

  Disagreements are always going to happen, people believe different things, have different points of views and history which affects their outlook and sometimes, however hard we may try and how obvious we may think the arguments are, we are never going to convince the other person.

  When it goes wrong is when people don't argue the points ... they just argue.

  It is, and always has been, the personal insults and attacks that are the problem. People over-react and then harbour grudges and voila ... a problem is born.

  All I can do is try and make it clear that this type of behaviour is unacceptable and remove people that are unwilling to change so that the rest can enjoy things and get on with it properly.
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  Shakita

  Back on last weekend one of the posters had a, what I thought, was a very big problem. Through my experience in my own life I thought I could give her some good advice. In doing so, I guess I stirred up a hornets nest of people who came back with a barrage of insulting posts aimed at me(or maybe because I am a sensitive person I thought they were insulting posts). I decided to take a break for a few days from the board because I needed time to think.

  I have posted before that sometimes when I feel passionate about something, I tend to say/type before I think through clearly what I want to say. In this case, I guess I could have used better judgement. Not on my entire post, which I thought was good advice, but rather on the part where people thought I was "men bashing." I certainly did not intend on doing that. I LOVE men!!! I guess this was an instance where I should have re-read my post before sending it.

  I would like to personally apologize to Valis, Sixofnine, and any others who thought that I was insulting the male gender. I did not intend my post to sound like that.

  I have now re-read my post, hopefully I haven't insulted anyone else on this one!

  Great post Englishman,

  Mrs. Shakita
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  Englishman

  It is, and always has been, the personal insults and attacks that are the problem. People over-react and then harbour grudges and voila ... a problem is born.

  This is interesting because people's idea of what constitutes an attack can be so different. To explain:

  I have a relative, who, when she falls out with someone, considers that person to be fair game for any accusation that she likes to make. Truth doesn't enter remotely into her insults, and once the spat is over, will respond when challenged over the lies that she has told with: "It serves you right, you shouldn't have upset me."

  Now I know that is an extreme example, but it is the sort of thing that we used to hear when we were children and some people don't move on from that, usually because they have never needed to because there has never been any consequences for their actions. A personal attack is their natural reaction to someone who has simply disagreed with them, a sort of either friend or enemy mentality. But, that's how they operate in all situations, it's not just confined to here.

  At the extreme opposite of that example are posters who can disagree without arguing. Pathofthorns often confronts my opinions, but it is always done in such a reasonable manner that I welcome and value his comments.

  Maybe we just need to be specific about what exactly constitutes a personal attack?

  Englishman.
• 

  jack2

  I live in the USA......and I find some of the behavior here to be rude, so while culture may play a part, I'm not sure geography can really totally explain what sometimes goes on here.

  One poster mentioned lack of personal contact. With no body language, no tone of voice, and no eye contact possible on a message board like this, I believe that, just as in e-mail or in live chat or private IM, the possiblity of misunderstandings occuring increases dramatically.

  Also, the possiblity was raised that much of the behavoir here is perhaps unique, or at least more common, among those who have experienced the Jehovah's Witnesses religion to whatever degree they have in their lives. I would not doubt that this could factor in.

  Perhaps not posting while in an emotional state could help. If we are upset or aroused in some negative way by something said here, perhaps the best thing to do is just move on to another thread or do something else, then return when we've had time to reflect on what was really said and what we'd like to say in response. This is much easier said than done, but it may be possible and could perhaps help.

  Edited by - jack2 on 5 November 2002 9:11:30