by ozziepost 16 Replies latest watchtower bible
Larc,
I'm simply trying to get you to see why they cannot be the 'remnant' of Israel spoken of in the Bible as the one being saved by Jehovah. They are not a remnant of anything. There is a nearly 2,000-year span between the first century christians and the GB today. They couldn't possibly be a remnant of these christians.
bjc,
You are beating a dead horse. You don't have to get me to see anything. I thought it was clear in my last post, that I don't believe it any more. How much more direct can I be?
BJC.
I think larc fully understands what is going on.
Now on to your question about what are they a remnant of?
They are the remaining ones of those chosen for heavenly life or the 'little flock'. (according to JW teaching)
Remaining ones =Remnant
It's not hard to understand the terminology used here.
Still on this WT article.
Page 26, parag 13 line 4 says
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"History shows that Jehovah began gathering to true worship a faithful remnant of anointed ones having the heavenly hope."
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This sentence seems to be an incomplete thought. It would seem that it is no more the bible that shows but history. History! When that began was not stated. Quite untypical. Is 1935 going away? How history (secular?, scriptural?) does show that we do not know.
bjc,
Perhaps you didn't understand that according to the Watch Tower Society there have only been 144,000 anointed brothers of Christ (Spiritual Israel) gathered from the 33 C.E. until 1935 C.E. which is when the doctrine of the "great crowd" was announced. Today's "remnant" are the remaining ones of that group, which was more or less sealed in 1935 (except for a few replacements for those evil slaves who departed those elite ranks from 1935 to the present).
However, if you do the math, you may become a disbeliever like larc and myself: 1935 - 33 years = 1902 years. In 33 CE, say 10,000 joined the new church. From 1935 to our day, say 10,000 more were legitimate 'adopted sons'. 124,000 Spiritual Israelites chosen down through 1902 years (or so) = approximately 65 anointed added on average per year. What a lonely group throughout the entire earth!
No wonder the anointed remnant to this day cannot trace their "lineage" of true worshiphers back past CT Russell (or perhaps Storrs/Miller and that ilk)!!! Like finding a needle in a haystack!
outnfree
Frenchy,
The terminology is what I'm talking about. In order to be considered a 'remnant' of something, you would by necessity have to have already been a part of this whole group and be the last ones left alive. You would then be the last ones of that group. Now, according to their teaching, they were anointed in the 20th century, so that would make them the last of the gentiles to become anointed. They did not become a part of the whole group until their anointing. This does not make them a remnant of this group. No, but they would be the last ones to become a part of the whole group albeit, most of them were already dead. If you consider all of the scriptures that use the term 'remnant,' you will see that they are speaking about a relatively few who initially were apart of the whole group or nation of Israel, being saved. Specifically, the whole nation of Israel went into Babylon, but only a 'remnant' returned to their homeland. The rest or the majority remained in Babylon.
So, Jehovah was not 'gathering a remnant of anointed ones' in this 20th century as they claim. They had not even been anointed. He would have been completing a specified number if we are to believe what they say, that is, completing the 144,000.
BJC2012:
Hi, I enjoyed your comments and they are very thought provoking and actually, very deep, when you think about it.
Let's examine the quote from the actual Watchtower article, that "Ozziepost" first listed.
para 8: "Those prophetic words referred to the remnant gathered out of Babylonian captivity..."
When you look up the word "Remnant" in the Dictionary what do we find the word actually means?
"...what is left over, remainder or residue, a small remaining part, quanitity, or number, fragment that is LEFT OVER...A piece of cloth, ribbon, etc. LEFT OVER or unsold as at the end of bolt of material." -- Websters 20th Century Dictionary Unabridged.
The quote above clearly says the "remnant gathered out of Babylonish captivity."
How is this even possible. This sentence is actually, an impossibility.
Because it would mean Jehovah has "anointed" christians who are in total captivity to Babylon the Great.
It is clear that for a person to be "anointed" by Jehovah God, he must first, yes first, be TAUGHT TRUTH.
Isaiah 54:13, shows that Jehovah's Sons will ALL be taught by Him. Jehovah is a God of knowledge. So if Jehovah's Witnesses, (or International Bible Students) were anointed while in Babylon the Great, or the churches of Christendom (as they teach), That would mean that Jehovah God taught them truth even while they were still prisoners in Babylon The Great, before the actual anointing occurred. That is completely a stupid idea!
Therefore, He would not "anoint" anyone who does not possess the "truth," about His word, certainly not someone who is still in "captivity" to Babylon the Great.
This is NOT what occurred at Pentecost.
The "anointing" would have to occur in a CLEAN environment. Which is why Jesus pulled his disciples out of all "leavened Judaism" first, before they were anointed. Jesus needed to "liberate" his disciples from false "teachings" and practices found in the nation of "Israel." (Matthew 16:12; Luke 4:18, 19)
Romans 8:14-16 & 1 John 2:27: In a clean environment, the Holy Spirit can thus, "lead" the anointed disciples to a heightened spiritual level in their service to God. Also, as "anointed" persons, Sons of God, now the Holy Spirit could "teach" them to such an extent that "they would not need anyone to teach them."
So, the WTS is not using the word "Remnant", in the proper sense. It would be impossible for JWs to be a "remnant" of anything "anointed" from Babylon the Great, since that would mean the "larger part of the whole" of number of the 144,000 were left back in Babylon.
MDS
