? re door to door JWs

by truthsetsfree 19 Replies latest jw friends

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  truthsetsfree

  I am not a witness or ex-witness but rather a 35 year old mom engaging in a dialogue with witnesses who are coming to my door. (I may not change their minds but I'd like to plant seeds of doubt!) I am trying to figure out what is behind a strategy (?)of theirs. Here goes:
  1st visit: Miss "a" (who does all the talking) and Miss "b", both probably in their 20's, come to my door saying the usual stuff about how bad things are in the world...I smile and take their literature, we share names.
  2nd visit: Miss "a" and Miss "b'" return, we chitchat briefly at door, they offer me booklet containing 12-13 lesson study ("What does God require of us" or something like that), I state that I always like to talk about people about what we believe, they go on their way. I expect they will be back.
  3rd visit: Miss "a" and Mrs "c" ( 50-ish) arrive at my house, I invite them in and we talk a little about the study, talk about a couple of Bible verses...we don't get real in depth because they say they don't have much time.
  4th visit: 2 1/2 weeks later, Mrs. "c" arrives with Mrs "d" (maybe in her 70's?), we cannot talk at that time because I'm leaving to pick up child from school. I ask as I did on their previous visit that they call ahead so I can know to expect them so they won't be inconvenieced (which is true but also because I like to be in the right frameof mind when we talk!). This happened today.

  My real question is: Why the changing cast of characters each time they call? is this their standard M.O.? Do they feel you out and if they think you'll be easy/tough send the appropriate troops? Or are they trying introduce you to as many people as possible so you'll feel at home when you visit the kingdom hall (I won't). If you can enlighten me I'd certainly be interested! Many thanks!
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  blondie

  Truthsetsfree (Hi)

  The strategy is as you surmise: to have you meet a variety of people from the local congregation. Thus, when you eventually decide to visit and continue your Bible education, you will feel comfortable having met several Jehovah's Witnesses.

  The goal is to get you to study the Watchtower publications on a weekly basis for 1 hour, to progress through the brochure and later 2 books. Further progress by the student is shown by attending 5 weekly meetings. Eventually, after qualifying by leading an exemplary Christian life, the student will be trained to also go from door to door and study with people, eventually leading to baptism by complete immersion.

  Why not ask them if it is true that only baptized Jehovah's Witnesses and their minor children will survive the destruction at Armageddon? Don't let them sidetrack you. They will try to change the subject or avoid answering the question directly. Ask how those in Muslim countries are being reached with the Kingdom message? Proseltyzing is prohibited. Will these people die because they happen to live under the wrong government?
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  larc

  I think the reason that different people showed up at your door is because they all don't happen to go out on a particular day. So, if a person who has been to your door has return visits to make, he will take whoever happens to be in his car. They usually go from door to door for awhile and then make return visits. They are locked into this routine, and don't call ahead because, well, it is not part of their programmed routine.
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  caligirl

  I think they are looking for the appropriate troops. The statement that you made about always enjoying talking to others about your belief probably scared the younger less "experienced" girls, so they are sending "older ones" who have more experience with overcoming objections. Never lose sight of the fact that the purpose of their visit is to make you question YOUR faith - they already beleive that you are in the wrong, and their mission is to convince you of that. Odds are that once they realize that you are not conversion material, you won't see any of them again. Good luck with planting seeds of doubt in them, and we'd love to hear progress reports!
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  Nathan Natas

  Here's my guess:

  Miss "a" was a more experienced JW than Miss "b", who might be relatively new to the door-to-door misery ministry. That's probably why Miss "a" did all the talking, although it is possible that she's just a pushy little princess in love with sound of her own voice.

  They made their "back-call" or "return visit" to find out how agreeable you would be to "studying the bible" with them. To JWs, "studying the bible" is about YOU learning to comply with what the WTS teaches. It is not a free exchange of ideas between equals. They are there to indoctrinate you.

  Mrs. "c" may have been asked along on the 3rd visit (JWs almost NEVER go door-to-door alone) simply because she was available that day. Each JW goes "out in service" as their personal schedule and commitment permit. It may also be that Miss "a" felt that you would "have more in common" with Mrs. "c" and might be more easlily swayed convinced by Mrs. "c".

  On the 4th visit, it certainly does seem that Miss "a" has bailed and handed you off to Mrs "c". Probably Mrs. "c" was working with Mrs. "d" because the younger girls don't like working with Mrs. "d" or Mrs. "d" doesn't like working with the younger girls. Like, what woould they have in common other than god's word, right?

  I'll bet they they will continue to ignore your request that they call first because showing up unannounced gives them a psychological advantage (unless you get angry because of their rude and inconsiderate behavior. They are judging right now whether you are a meek and compliant "sheep" or a strong-willed "goat." Their ministry is wrapped in urgency - you DO know, DON'T YOU, that "real soon now" Jehovah is going to destroy 99.9% of humanity at Armageddon. If you want to survive, you'll be meek and suggestible and just go along with waht they say - your very life is at stake!

  Ask them to tell you about 1975 and how they've changed their teaching about how long a "generation" is. Then watch them start backpedalling.

  Edited by - Nathan Natas on 13 November 2002 21:52:56
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  truthsetsfree

  First of all, you guys are awesome! I appreciate all you've said and look forward to hearing from others as well.

  I kinda had a hunch that Miss "b" was a newbie.

  I got the impression from Blondie that you have to prove yourself (do lotsa Kingdom work) before they'll baptize you. Whatever happened to "repent, believe and be baptized"? In my church (where we believe the BIBLE) you profess faith, then you get wet!

  Caligirl, your statement about how they try to make you doubt your faith is so right on, I immediately surmised that by reading their booklet. So many red flags flew up as I read it. I can see how one who isn't firmly grounded in scripture could be bamboozled.

  Nathan, great observations! It also brought to mind another question, how to chip away and cause doubt. I was thinking about chipping away at the authority of the WTS, due to all it's failures and inconsistencies. Former JWs, is this a logical approach? Or go after doctrine? Or only go after doctrine as a way to point out WTS inconsistencies? There are so many flaws, it's hard to decide where to begin!!!
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  larc

  If you wanted to bring up any subject, I would bring up their 122 year history of failed prophecy. We can give you all the facts and figures. The major failure was Armageddon. It was supposed to arrive in 1914, 1918, 1925, and 1975. There are other failures as well, but those are the most major ones.
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  Blueblades

  TRUTHSETSFREE,HI! Ask them if it is a Bible study why are they using other publications,why not just the Bible.The WT.Society teaches that the Bible is inspired but must be properly explained("illuminated") in order to be understood.The governing body of the organization is the only group supposedly qualified to do the illuminating.However their illumination has changed many times.Why didn't God have the Bible illuminated when it was originally written?Wouldn't the authors of the book have been the best ones to do the job?Why did God make people wait 1,000 years to understand the Bible?That ought to give them something to think about.Hope this helps you.Blueblades
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  Nathan Natas

  Blueblades' comment gave me an idea for a strategy:

  Ask them why the bible was not understood for so much of history - they JWs will tell you it is because NOW is the "time of the end."

  Asl them how we know that THIS is "the time of the end" - they'll talk about the "signs" and eventually get around to Matthew 24.

  Ask them when "the time of the end" began - they'll tell you it was in 1914 when Christ began his rule in heaven.

  Ask then how long the time of the end will be - they MIGHT tell you that "nobody knows the day or the hour."

  Bring them back to Matthew 24 and say, oh, but here it says that the generation that sees these things will by no means pass away - does that mean those who saw 1914?" - they'll probably hem and haw and say that it doesn't mean the people who saw 1914, but some vaguely defined group of people in the future when "the end " comes.

  Tell them it sounds like they're confused - it THIS "the time of the end" or not? If it isn't, what's the big deal?

  Larc was correct, too - in their entire history, the JWs - or more accurately, the Watchtower - has not uttered A SINGLE prophecy that came to pass as predicted and when predicted. If you wanted to be a little more confrontational you might ask them to give you an example of ONE WTS prophecy that came true.

  You could tell them that you thank God for the UN, because it certainly seems to be bringing peace to the world (I know that's a crock, but play along...) - they'll tell you about how the UN is the scarlet colored wild beast of Revelation. Let them go on and on for a while about how bad the UN is. Ask if that means that churches that work with the UN are bad too, and let them tell you that yes, those churches are THE GREAT HARLOT! Let them go on for a while. Then tell them you don't understand why the Watchtower was registered with the UN as an NGO (non-governmental organization) for ten years, from about 1991 to about 2001. They were, the hypocrits!

  Ask about blood transfusions - some blood components are OK to transfuse seperately, but others are "what makes blood SACRED to god" and cannot be used. Ask about organ transplants - they're OK, but used to be condemned, or vaccinations, which the WTS was once RABIDLY opposed to, but now says are OK.

  There is SO much... the WTS owns MILITARY STOCKS... the child abuse problem as featured on Dateline NBC, BBC Panorama and Australia's Channel 9... so much, so much.
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  La Capra

  Mrs. C has clearly poached Miss A's return visit.

  I remember as a child being dragged around by women going door to door and hearing a Mrs. "C" clone saying to a Mrs. "D" clone, "why don't we go on this return visit I went on with Miss "A" last week. We might be able to place a Truth Book."

  I also remember the fallout when Miss A discovered her hot prospect got poached by Mrs."C" and there wasn't a damn thing she could do about it because Mrs.C is actually "Sister Presiding Elder's Wife" and Miss "A" is actually "Sister Unbelieving Mate".

  Oh the snubbery that ensued....

  I NEVER missed anything after I left. Can you tell?

  Shoshana