I always disagreed with ....

by fulano 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  undercover

  Smoking can be a nasty, addictive, hurtful habit. Very little, if anything, is positive about smoking. So should it be a disfellowshipping offense? If one is addicted, and doesn't take the steps to quit, then, probably they should, especially if they spend money on this habit that would take away from their family's necessities.. But if someone enjoys a cigar or pipe or the occasional cigarette and they aren't addicted and can control the habit, then what bible principle is being broken? The same is true for alcohol. If you can't control the addiction, then there are bible principles involved. If you are an occasional drinker with no addiction, then no problem. Same with over-eating. Gluttony and drunkeness are both condemned. Smoking, IMO, falls into the principles used for over-eating and over-drinking. We need food, but overeating or gluttony is wrong. We don't need alcoholic drinks, but in moderation they are allowed. We don't need tobacco, and the bible does not speak of it at all. So if we use the principles used for eating and drinking, then we can see that some could be able to enjoy a fine cigar or pipe, while others would need to avoid it completely so as not to become addicted.

  This whole thing becomes more muddled up when you consider that the cigarette companies add additives to make cigarettes more addictive(and thus harmful).
• 

  ballistic

  Did you know that cigarrettes do not "calm you down" or relieve tension what so ever? What it actually does is heighten your anxiety / tension during the withdrawl stage (maybe several hours after your last cigarrette) so that when you smoke again, it only seems to have that effect. The initial 'hit' you get while inhaling is not the nicotine (which is the addictive ingredient) but the Carbon Monoxide and Dioxide hitting your blood stream and literally starving your brain of oxygen.
• 

  garybuss

  fulano, you wrote:

  There is even a picture that shows Rutherford smoking..I don not have it digital though.

  Do you have a copy of it? Where can I gat a copy of it? Can you scan it?

  Thanks,

  gb
• 

  A Paduan

  It's apparent that jwism fosters the psychological view of health and "goodness", i.e. that people are responsible for their choices - but this thinking doesn't explain why similar groups suffer from the same problems - indeed it relieves the "good and well" from their social response-abilities and fosters victim blaming.

  LB - you said you put on stacks of weight and it was your fault and you deserved it - really? - do you think it might have had something to do with the depressive influence that came into your life from the wts? My primary nursing diagnosis may rather be that the wts needs to be disbanded.

  With smoking, and with eating - if people become oppressed for any reasons, their bodies may well resort to alternative life pleasures for quick maintenance of mind - eating satisfies particular neurological pathways - and the effect of nicotine on neuron receptors is well known - other people may well say, "but that didn't happen to me" - however everyone's emotional and physical environment is not identical - they may have had a quiet afternoon in the country instead - or even work satisfaction.

  The different (deviant) groups, like smokers and the obese are labelled 'at risk', attracting the surveillance of 'moral entrepaneurs' - these vulnerable groups transgress the social rules that the 'moral entrepeneurs' apply - then the less self-righteous seek a kind perspective that doesn't create social waves - they medicalise the problem - as can be seen in this thread, social problems become "illness" - but then it is spoken of using the same language that is used for diseases - so the "sick" can be treated instead - still, the surveillance is not socially focused - on the origins of the 'social bother'. eg the wts.

  The sociological view critiques other perspectives for being unable to account for the social production, construction and distribution of "illness". And if the cure for someone's social problems is a cigar, what's the concern? But personally I'd rather give the wts a serious asskicking - perhaps that's why I don't smoke - satisfaction can come from many different nerve sensations - even toes are well innervated.

  paduan

  Edited by - a paduan on 14 November 2002 18:33:30
• 

  LB

  LB - you said you put on stacks of weight and it was your fault and you deserved it - really? - do you think it might have had something to do with the depressive influence that came into your life from the wts? My primary nursing diagnosis may rather be that the wts needs to be disbanded.

  No not at all. I was managing to get fat all by myself. I think my obesity helped me to become a witness. After all I was already depressed and I was at a bad time in my life. They got be just right.

  Fulano in all honesty I don't think you even come close to getting it. Again you refer to someone eating too much as filthy. You were a perfect witness I'm sure, just judge away my friend. And I am not offended, but I know you've managed to offend others that are currently obese.

  I wonder if you are attacking obese people as a way of justifying smoking? Trust me, I could care less what you want to do with your health. Maybe it's because smokers are getting shut out of business's all over the US. Can't smoke here, there, almost everywhere yet people are allowed to eat as much as they want, everywhere. Not fair for you is it?
• 

  Mulan

  There are two subjects on this thread, smoking and fat people.

  1. Yes, it bothered me that smokers were df'd. I couldn't see the point they made in the Bible. I also made the comparison to the myriads of fat people.

  2. Now, about the fat thing. I have a niece who is at least 400 pounds. Princess can testify to it too. She joined Weight Watchers a couple of months ago and has lost 47 pounds. She has taken up golf, and is feeling much better. She was only about 5'4", so was pretty gross looking. She is an RN too, but she has a food addiction. She needed help.

  I have gone to Weight Watchers off and on for 30 years, and am a Lifetime member. That doesn't mean I have always kept my weight at the goal weight either. It means I lost it once, kept it off during the 8 week maintenence, and was awarded the Lifetime thing. I don't ever have to pay to join again. I have seen many women AND men lose well over 100 pounds doing WW. It can work, but I would be the first to admit it won't work for everyone.

  So, my point is that while LB may be right in saying that some people cannot lose weight after they are a certain amount overweight, my niece is an exception. There is also Jason, from the Subway commercials. He lost a ton of weight just by getting a healthy sandwich everyday.

  There are always exceptions. I wish the bypass wasn't limited to people 100 pounds overweight. It's tempting.
• 

  kelpie

  200 pound sisters and brothers at the convention was not really good taste. That's filthy, someone eating his own grave.

  I really think comments like these are uncalled for.... They are shallow and heartless... When people say these things they dont think about how it could affect the people reading them. Obviously fulano you must be a perfect size 6!!!
• 

  ozziepost

  Some people think Ozzie's fat, some think he's cuddly, others think he's about right. Seems to me it's often relative. And that may be why you never hear of judicial committees concerned with greed, including getting fat. You see, it's too hard to quanify.

  But smoking? Well, that's different, ain't it, you can SEE a person smoking. So then it's easy for the modern-day pharisee class to act on.

  Personally, I've always had problems with taking judicial action for the "crime"of smoking. Although I've DF people for smoking, I hated toing it. Got into trouble expressing my opinion too! The only basis for it is a distortion of scripture perpetrated by the WTS. It's not my choice you understand, I don't smoke, and don't like it, but I believe it's a personal matter.

  Cheers, Ozzie (of the true freedom lovers class)
• 

  kelpie

  btw.. just because they are fat why are they filthy????
• 

  LB

  Kelpie statements like that are only made by bigoted people. I wish people would be more considerate than that.

  Mulan the success rate for keeping off weight after 5 years is less than 2% with diets. The success rate after 5 years with the surgery is close to 90%.

  There is a new procedure being done by surgeons such as mine who can be found at www.gastricbypass.com which are designed for people that are 45-70 pounds overweight. It is a very simple procedure. Since it's new very few insurance companys will pay for it. It is sort of like a pacemaker. It is a tiny electrical device which is implanted in your tummy. It gives the person a sensation of always feeling full and contented. It has been done in Europe for about 5 years now and since the surgeon I used is the one of the most well known he and a few others have been doing this procedure in the US as a test for the past year. He tells me the results are very encouraging.