To: Lurking Elders or Former Elders

by somebody 18 Replies latest jw friends

somebody

If the Watch Tower Society prints information such as this, claiming that they a LEGAL INSTRUMENT used by JWs,
Watchtower 98 3/15 18
Living Up to Christian Dedication in Freedom
"For instance, the Witnesses use the Watch Tower Society as a legal instrument-one of many in various lands-to enable them to accomplish their work of helping fellow humans, especially in spiritual ways. "
Proclaimers book. 219
Development of the Organization Structure
"Since the visible agency that would be used by Christ is the faithful and discreet slave (and the facts of modern-day history already considered show that this "slave" employs the Watch Tower Society as a legal instrument), The Watchtower explained that theocratic procedure would require that appointments of service be made through this agency. Even as the congregations in the first century recognized the governing body in Jerusalem, so today the congregations would not prosper spiritually without central supervision.-Acts 15:2-30; 16:4, 5.
Then what do you think the reason is for them instructing these notes to be written and followed into the Flock book that YOU ELDERS use for all those that you took on the responsibility of judging?
Six Expressions That Should Not Be Used on S77 and S79 Forms
1. Anything alluding to or naming one of the Society's attorneys
2. Any mention of the Legal Department
3. Any comments referring to direction from the Society
4. Any comments mentioning anyone other than the committee itself as a possible influence in the decision reached
5. Any comments that might suggest to someone with a critical eye that the committee did not reach its decision on its own but, instead, somehow yielded to the influence of an outside party
6. Any comments indicating that the elders mishandled the case or committed any error in the investigation or the judicial committee process.
------------------------------------
Have you ever given thought to ,or have an opinion of why the Watchtower Society is a "legal" instrument or "agency" used by Christ but you are to keep it secret in writing on the S77 and S79 forms?
One question that is even more important here is this:
Is the Pay Attention To The Flock book written instruction by the "Society", or the "faithful and discreet slave"?
With all the lawsuits against elders now, I would look up the WBTS statements that are in print now and how the two terms are "not interchangeable". And then read your Flock books VERY carefully. You elders never know when you will need legal help. And if you really read what the WBTS print, you're eyes will be opened. Opened wide!
You should know the answer on whether the Flock book is instructions from the "faithful and discreet slave" spoken about in the Bible, or the "Society". Those two terms make the difference if you ever get sued for what you've done to people in your congregations.
I'm asking you elders to research, because the "legal instrument" you use does not care to bother to tell you how they will respond if you get sued for following the rules in their Book.
peace,
gwen
Edited by - somebody on 20 November 2002 13:6:20
wheelwithinwheel

When I copied the quoted footnote 'what not to be used...' into my book, I realised the WT was 1. covering its ass and 2.hanging the elders out to dry for any consequences of WT legal's orders, which must be followed to the letter.
I had already experienced WT legal meddling firsthand. Maybe that's why, as I wrote 1., 2., 3., and finally got to 6., I was quite shocked and upset by what I believed to be a shirking of responsability.
So began my path out of eldership and eventually out of the org.
The strange thing is the elders I've talked to, including my dad, don't seem to have a problem with the legal instrument's covering it's ass-hole.
Since I'm out I now see that the WT will never take responsibility for anything... be it legal matters, misunderstanding and misinterpreting the Bible, failed prophecies or other matters
somebody

wheelwithinwheel,
I thank you for you input and sharing your experience.
I DO care about elders in the JW congregations. The "society" doesn't. Not one iota as you saw firsthand. I'm SO glad you said what you did because I don't believe elders really "see" what they are taking on. They are taking on a responsibility that the "society" led them to believe was a "privilege from Jehovah". If that were true, then the "society", with their multi millions of dollars would stand up and LEGALLY help their own with the LEGAL expenses they have to pay for lawyers and their LEGAL expenses. Seems to me that they instruct elders to follow the Flock book but if elders get sued for following it, they LEGALLY want nothing to do with the elders who followed it!
My heart truly goes out to elders who don't know any better. They end up paying such a dear price both mentally and financially...which effects them physicaly. The Society NOR the faithful and discreet slave are NOWHERE to be found when elders are in dire need spiritually when these TRUE things happen either. They want NO part of them when lawsuits happen. As a matter of FACT, the society will go as far as to send representatives to court to say that they have "no special relationship" with JWs that make up their congregations! I'll find the proof of that and I'll be back to post it here.
peace to you,
somebody/gwen
Edited by - somebody on 20 November 2002 14:34:31
somebody

Here is the link to a court case:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=6035&site=3
I glanced at it again and I don't think it was a representative of the society, but maybe and elder. I'll have to read the whole thing over again, but either way, I'm sure you can see what I see, considering what you've been through.
I thank you again for your input, wheelwithinwheel. It's appreciated.
peace,
gwen
JT

yep I RECALL it like yesterday a group of former bethelites were discussing this with the bethel instructor since we knew him personally during lunch and he said the same thing
the slave is protecting it's interest and most of the guys felt it was a smart move and if the elders had to suffer , then YOU WOULD BE SUFFERING FOR THE KINGDOM
the comment was made that thruout history folks have fallen on thier sword in behalf of a greater good and that is how most jw, elder and publishers view something that turns out to be wrong
ask any REAL dyed in the wool jw about transplant or alternative service or blood fractions do they have a problem with all who suffered under wrong info and they will tell you something to the effect
they will be ressurected since they died for righteous sake or they made the best choice with the knowledge that jah had revealed at THAT TIME
BOTTOM line is they don't see the the connection that wt is hanging you out to dry and
as was stated most elder and pub view any SUFFERING as for the kingdom good and therefore they HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH IT
and we see that to be the case over and over --
once you see THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN, it becomes very hard to continue
for those who do get it they will have to leave wt for it is not possible to continue and we have seen it in others and our own personal exp it is hard to attend meetings prepare parts go out in service once you have seen THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN
somebody

Hi JT,
First let me say that it's good to see you back here and read your thoughts...
It's good to see you back and here and to read your thoughts!
You said: >>>>>>>>> yep I RECALL it like yesterday a group of former bethelites were discussing this with the bethel instructor since we knew him personally during lunch and he said the same thing
the slave is protecting it's interest and most of the guys felt it was a smart move and if the elders had to suffer , then YOU WOULD BE SUFFERING FOR THE KINGDOM
------------------------------One would think that the "slave" would help the elders in their "persecution" seeing as how most elders to not have the financial means/lawyers fees to protect themselves. Being that the "salve" is supposed to be a "LEGAL CORPORATION" that "WITNESSES USE".
You also said>>>>>>the comment was made that thruout history folks have fallen on thier sword in behalf of a greater good and that is how most jw, elder and publishers view something that turns out to be wrong
ask any REAL dyed in the wool jw about transplant or alternative service or blood fractions do they have a problem with all who suffered under wrong info and they will tell you something to the effect
they will be ressurected since they died for righteous sake or they made the best choice with the knowledge that jah had revealed at THAT TIME
------------I remeber reading somwhere in a "society" publication that JWs in those terrible situations were not to SAY THAT THEY WOULD SEE THAT PERSON WHEN THEY ARE RESURRECTED, to the public. { I wish I could find the WTS publication where I read that! )
You said too>>>>>>>>>>> BOTTOM line is they don't see the the connection that wt is hanging you out to dry and
as was stated most elder and pub view any SUFFERING as for the kingdom good and therefore they HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH IT
and we see that to be the case over and over --
once you see THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN, it becomes very hard to continue
for those who do get it they will have to leave wt for it is not possible to continue and we have seen it in others and our own personal exp it is hard to attend meetings prepare parts go out in service once you have seen THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN
-----------
"THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN" makes me think about THE ORGANIZATION BEHIND THE NAME.
peace to you,
somebody
NameWithheld

Trust me, once the payola starts rolling in on the Catholic cases (and it is begining to now), it will wake up a bunch more JWs/x-JWs into realizing they too can take on the WTBTS and win. Also, there are a few lawyers involved in the Catholic stuff right now that might look to other groups once the Catholic cases wind down. The elders will bear the brunt of this. The WTBTS will cut bait and run fast.
somebody

"The elders will bear the brunt of this. The WTBTS will cut bait and run fast."

You summed up my point!
hawkaw

There is this thing called principle/agent releationships.
The WTS is the corporation or the principle. The agents of the corporation are MSs and Elders. A good lawyer will easily tell you regular baptized publishers are also "agents" too. As agents of the corporation, if the elders screw up while doing their duties for the WTS, then the WTS would be vicarously liable for any improper action/inaction done by the elders.
Bottom line, if someone manages to proves negiligence and harm and manages to get around the freedom of religion clause in the constitution, then all parties, not just the elders would be held liable. Of course the court would rule who has to pay out what percentage too.
So, the points you are making ... are kinda ... well ... small.
What strikes me .... in say the Vicki Boer case for example .... was the elders who were named as defendants in the case along with the WTS. The elders used the WTS's legal counsel and trusted WTS legal counsel to protect their interests. Absolutely insane, in my mind, when their house and life savings would be on the line.
hawk
Joyzabel

Very nice post, somebody!
This is what I've been trying to tell my dad for years: "cover your own a$$, the wtbts is not looking out for it"
j2bf

To: Lurking Elders or Former Elders

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