Donahue Comments on Jws

Kenneson

How many of you watched Donahue Wed. night? His program revolved around separation of Church and State. There were discussions on the Ten Commandment issue in Alabama, prayer at graduation exercises, the use of the word God in the Pledge, etc. On the latter issue, Donahue discussed the stance of Jw's refusal to salute the flag and pledge allegiance. He stated that they believed they owed their allegiance only to God. He also talked about the reaction of the country towards the Witness stand during the war years (1940s), including the attack on a Kingdom Hall in Kennebunk, Maine. He especially admired the Supreme Courts decision (1943) that JW children not be expelled from school for their refusal. He concluded by quoting Justice Jackson: "If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein."

RedhorseWoman

Didn't see it, but it still amazes me how JWs will use every means to further their cause and defend their "freedoms" while denying those freedoms to their own members and preaching the destruction of those to whom they appeal for those freedoms.

RunningMan

I find that the freedoms created and upheld in modern western nations are among the most beautiful things that humanity has ever produced.

It's too bad that they are utilized by idiots like the Witnesses. It's even worse that, even though they survive at the mercy of those freedoms, they deny them to their own members.

Francois

RHW - There's never been a shortage of hypocrisy amongst Jehoomah Williamses now has there?

How're things going with RoseMaybud? Enough to interest me in having another peek?

wednesday

i recall in college, my government instructor found out i was a jw, and hammered me about all the liberties the WTS had taken in the name of the 1st amendment. he would have spit on me if he could have.

CornerStone

I saw that portion of the Donahue Show with my JW mother-in-law sitting across from me.

I had my head laying back on the couch and when I heard Donahue mention jehovah's witnesses my head snapped foward in complete attention.

I know it sounded like he was praising jw's but he could also have been acknowledging the precedent they were setting, freedom from state sponsored religion.

I don't know what he thinks about jw's as a ~~cult~~ religion so I can't realy say if he was praising them directly.

My mother-in-law, God bless her, just mumbled a few words because she knows how I feel about THAT topic.

CornerStone

Valis

For your viewing pleasure

DONAHUE: So-well, Dr. Falwell agrees with you. May I just make this one point? In the 1940s-this is of more than passing interest to Mr. Newdow, and Im sure he knows this. I think this is one of the great moments in American history. This is what makes me proud to be an American. The Jehovahs Witnesses kids, who at home-their faith does not allow them to pledge allegiance to anything but God-anyone, anything. And the whole 1st-grade class stands up and they sing-they say, I pledge allegiance-the whole class-to the flag of the United States of America. Jehovahs witness kids stand like this 1st grade. And to the republic for which it stands...
FALWELL: Come on Phil, you know...
DONAHUE: Now, wait a minute! Let me finish this story. This is important to me. Listen, now. This-they threw stones at these kids. This was the time of war. They were scum, not pledging the flag! They burned down a Kingdom Hall in Kennebunk, Maine. And the Supreme Court came down 8-to-1 8-to-1 in favor of the Jehovahs Witnesses, with Justice Jackson in one of the great flourishes of our-in the history of the Court, writing, If there is any fixed star in the constitutional constellation, it is that no official high or petty can prescribe what shall be orthodox in religion...
FALWELL: And we all agree with that, Phil.
DONAHUE: ... politics, nationalism, or any other matter of opinion
8-to-1, the Supremes...

FALWELL: It should have been 9-to-nothing.
DONAHUE: ... said to those kids-the Supremes said to those kids, You obey your parents. Oh!
(APPLAUSE)
DONAHUE: That gives me goose bumps. That makes me proud to be an American.

And the entire article..

Sincerely,

District Overbeer

Kenneson

Thanks Valis.

JWinSF

Yes I saw it. I believe that he [or some other TV personality] brought this up in another recent show. As for me, regardless of the motivation behind the JWs taking it to the highest court, the fact remains that the JWs were instrumental in getting one of the USA's most vital freedoms legally recognized.

Do the JWs prevent other freedoms for their members? Obviously, yes. But, in that regard, other religious organizations also do the same. Another religion that is very much in line with similar control tactics is the Mormons.

Although this court case was fought so that the JWs would have freedom of expression to not perform the Pledge of Allegiance and the flag salute, the end result is that everyone has benefitted. And, as far as that goes, just about any court case is the same: One person or organization pursues what is right for them in the courts and while they at the time were most likely thinking only of themselves, the end result is a benefit to society as a whole.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no supporter of the JWs, having DAd in 1994. But, I believe that painting anything that they do as being self-servient is a black and white approach. In fact, there are many other precious freedoms that we now take for granted that were won by the JWs in their pursuit of freedom of religious expression. Whatever the motivation behind their actions, we presently benefit by them whether one wants to admit it or not.

And, as a side point, Jerry Falwell in his part on the show came across as his usual blithering idiot, self-righteous self. If it came to a choice of having the Jerry Falwells or the JWs as next door neighbors, I'd chose the JWs without question. Again, I'm not one that would ever recommend subjecting oneself to the JW cult-like controls, but in my eyes they are the lesser of two evils.

John W Wirtanen

freedomhouse3

I definately agree with John on this one because Jerry Foulwell er, Fallwell had his way he would force everyone of us to worship a god that some of us don't believe in. The JW's (intentionally or not) have paved the way for the rest of us to have the freedoms that we enjoy. I would rather have them as my next door neighbor because they would not bother me as soon as I've told them that I was disfellowshipped. (HA! HA! )

Donahue Comments on Jws

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