by zev 18 Replies latest jw friends
And the JC members are so out of touch with how to deal with that kind of person, they're very likely to foul up and violate that person's civil rights, and then it's time for a visit to the nearest United States District Court for a little chat before a judge and jury about how much money the WTBTS owes you for violating your rights.
Francois,
Legally, the WTBS is not liable. The individual elders are. I wonder if they are told that before they are made elders.
Richard
Francois, I know exactly what you mean, I went w/ my mom as a worldly "witness" to help her out in a meeting w/ the circuit overseer & local elders. Well, one of the elders said something, the CO asked me if it was true, & I said, "No, he's lying". This guy jumps up in my face, & starts screamin at me, Saying"You sit down! You be Quiet & show me some respect!" So I sez, #1, Respect is something that is earned, & your contemptible, #2, I AM sitting down, your the one yelling, I am NOT subject to your commands as I do not claim to be a Jw, & I resent you telling me to lie about your behavior. He looked like such an idiot that even the CO admonished him. It was beautiful. He was so stunned that I actually talked back, being so used to having people kowtow, that he did'nt know what to do!
Edited by - avishai on 23 November 2002 3:37:3
..."Strong circumstantial evidence, such as pregnancy or evi-
dence (testified to by at least two witnesses) that the
accused stayed all night in the same house with a person of
the opposite sex (or in the same house with a known
homosexual) under improper circumstances, is acceptable".
Now that's a bunch of crap that "goes beyond things written". Not the pregnancy part, I'll go along with that one. I mean the spending the night thing. There are simply witnesses to the vehicle being parked there overnight. Unless those witnesses peeked through the windows and actually saw some lovin' goin' on, and knowing dubs that could mean the two subjects sitting at opposite ends of the same couch without an old prude chaperone between them, then there are NO witnesses to wrongdoing!
Mike.
Edited by - bendrr on 22 November 2002 19:9:16
I always thought that was a kind of squirrely chapter title, too. "Sharing" on a judicial committee. Squirrely, like I said. Sort of like: Sharing on a firing squad, or Sharing with a lethal injection. Those JWs are a laugh a minute, aren't they?
Actually, this is one of many points that have been changed since that was written. "Stayed all night in the same house" is no longer considered evidence.
Actually, this is one of many points that have been changed since that was written. "Stayed all night in the same house" is no longer considered evidence.
Surreptitous, changed how and when? This is still in the Pay Attention to the Flock book. So unless a very, very recent BOE (Body of Elders) letter was released, this is still the official stance. I know a sister who was DF'd just 2 months ago based on her staying overnight under the same roof with a man not her husband.
Blonde(inquiring minds want to know)
I keep forgetting, was it the Apostle Paul or some other writer who layed all this s#*t out?
No tape recorders allowed eh? Says who? It's not in the Constitution and I would definitely agree with Francois that this is a violation of your basic Civil Rights. Without proof of what they're accusing you of, they could disfellowship you on a whim and spread the most vicious of lies about why you were axed (see Ray Franz, Bill Bowen and Barbara Anderson as examples).
Kind of like when the Dallas Police (very corrupted at the time) interrogated Lee Harvy Oswald without him having Legal Representation and NO ONE recorded, either on paper or on tape, one word that was said). That way, they could promote the idea that he and he alone killed JFK and that's exactly what they did.
If I were to sit before a JC, I would most certainly have a small tape recorder in my pocket or under my shirt and there's not a damn thing they can do about it. Assholes.
Hi Blondie!
You're absolutely right, it's still in the book. And as any elder/ex-elder can attest to, so are other points that now have marginal references adjusting the point.
Do you remember when at the assemblies the announcement would be made that there would be an elders meeting during lunch in the such and such room located "behind the stage to the speakers right" (or where ever)? Also, twice a year when the CO comes around, he conducts a meeting with the BOE in conjunction with their quarterly meeting. At these meetings an outline from the Society is closely followed in which updated information is given to the elders. The format goes something like this: The CO (or often at the assemblies it's the DO) will say, "Ok, everone please take out your KS91 and turn to page XX. Is everyone there? Ok good, now in the margin next to paragraph XX, write the following: blah blah blah." Some COs/Dos have the updates already printed on labels so you can just stick 'em in there.
The adjustment in question was made about two years ago. (Probably precipitated by a law suit). Too many other scenarios in which someone could have stayed the night without a DFing offence to have occurred. No longer evidence.
Perhaps in the case you mentioned, there were other facts involved too? Or perhaps those elders missed that meeting? (hehehe) Perhaps perhaps perhaps...... Perhaps they recently re-adjusted the adjustment?? Oh, but they wouldn't do something like THAT! ..................... Would they?
BTW Blondie, let me take this opportunity to say that in the short time that I've been hangin' around here, I've really appreciated your posts. Keep 'em comin"!
