When does a christian receive the Holy Spirit?

barry

From the New World Translation.2 Corinthians 1 verse 22 He has put this seal upon us and has given us the token of what is to come that is the spirit in our hearts. From this its saying its some future event when a christian receives the holy spirit.
My New english bible says. who has placed his mark of ownership upon us, and who has given us the Holy Spirit in our hearts as the guarantee of all that he has in store for us. A different meaning here we allready have the Holy Spirit
Your comments would be appreciated its for my ex wife and she is trying to understand the JW position. Barry

onacruse

The WTS applies this verse to the "anointed." They are the only ones who truly have the Holy Spirit. Those of us "other sheep" only got a ricochet of spirit from the "anointed," but actually, only from the "Governing Body" of the "anointed" of the "faithful and discreet slave," but then actually only from the type A members of the GB. And we know all this because they told us so.

They say that a Christian receives HS (in the sense of 1 Cor 1:22) at the moment of "anointing" to the heavenly hope, never before. Less than 9,000 of over 6,000,000 JWs profess to have the heavenly hope. A clear disconnect.

Does this make any sense? If so, please consult your physician and get appropriate medication.

btw, good morning to you, barry!

Craig

Edited by - onacruse on 23 November 2002 6:57:7

blondie

According to the Bible, I can think of 3 occasions

Some time after having had been baptized previously, those at Pentecost 33 CE received the Holy Spirit.

2. Cornelius and his household received the Holy Spirit shortly before their baptism (to convince Peter they were acceptable candidates for baptism).

The ones that had been baptized only in John's baptism had to be rebaptized after their taking in knowledge of Jesus, then they received Holy Spirit.

Below is the restating of the official position that the other sheep have as much holy spirit as the anointed. There are some qualifiers but the end statement is pretty direct. Is this understood and practiced in the WTS is another question.

*** w96 6/15 31 Questions From Readers ***
Can we say that Gods servants today who have the earthly hope have as much of Gods spirit as do spirit-anointed Christians?

This question is not a new one. This same matter was addressed in "Questions From Readers" in The Watchtower of April 15, 1952. Many have become Witnesses since then, so we can consider the question and in the process review what that earlier material said.

Fundamentally, the answer is, yes, faithful brothers and sisters of the other sheep class can share equally with anointed ones in receiving Gods holy spirit.John 10:16.

This, of course, does not mean that the spirit operates in the same way on all individuals. Think back to faithful servants in pre-Christian times, who certainly received Gods spirit. With power from the spirit, some of them slew ferocious beasts, cured the sick, even raised the dead. And they needed the spirit to write inspired books of the Bible. (Judges 13:24, 25; 14:5, 6; 1 Kings 17:17-24; 2 Kings 4:17-37; 5:1-14) The Watchtower said: "Though not of the anointed class, they were filled with holy spirit."

From another angle, consider men and women in the first century who were anointed with holy spirit, becoming spiritual sons of God with the heavenly hope. All had been anointed, but that does not mean that the spirit thereafter operated in the same way on all of them. That is clear from 1 Corinthians chapter 12. There the apostle Paul discussed gifts of the spirit. We read in 1Co 12 verses 8, 9, and 11: "To one there is given through the spirit speech of wisdom, to another speech of knowledge according to the same spirit, to another faith by the same spirit, to another gifts of healings by that one spirit. . . . But all these operations the one and the same spirit performs, making a distribution to each one respectively just as it wills."

Significantly, not all anointed ones back then had miraculous gifts of the spirit. In 1 Corinthians chapter 14, Paul mentioned a congregation meeting in which one had the gift of tongues, but no one present had the gift of translation. Nonetheless, at some earlier point, each one of them had experienced anointing with spirit. Would it be reasonable to say that the brother having the gift of tongues had more of the spirit than others present? No. Those other anointed ones were not disadvantaged, as if unable to understand the Bible as well as that one or unable to face trials as well. The spirit operated in a special way on the brother who could speak in tongues. Still, he and they needed to stay close to Jehovah and to "keep getting filled with spirit," as Paul wrote.Ephesians 5:18.

Regarding those of the remnant today, they certainly have received Gods spirit. At one point it operated on them in a special wayat the time when they were anointed and adopted as spiritual sons. Thereafter they "keep getting filled with spirit," having its help when they seek to understand the Bible more clearly, take the lead in the preaching work, or face testspersonal or organizational.

Members of the "other sheep," though not having had the experience of being anointed, in other respects do receive holy spirit. The Watchtower of April 15, 1952, observed:

"The other sheep today perform the same preaching work as the remnant, under the same trying conditions, and manifest the same faithfulness and integrity. They feed at the same spiritual table, eating the same food, absorbing the same truths. Being of the earthly class, with earthly hopes and a keen interest in earthly things, they might interest themselves more in scriptures relating to earthly conditions in the new world; whereas the anointed remnant, with heavenly hopes and strong personal interest in the things of the spirit, might study more diligently those things in Gods Word. . . . Yet the fact remains that the same truths and the same understanding are available to both classes, and it is just how the individuals apply themselves in study that determines the comprehension of heavenly and earthly things they acquire. The Lords spirit is available in equal portions to both classes, and knowledge and understanding are offered equally to both, with equal opportunities for absorbing it."

ozziepost

available in equal portions

And therein lies the Watchtower dogma, "portions". To them the H.S. is something that you can apportion, whereas to the Christian it has a personality.

Navigator

I believe that we all have the gift of the Holy Spirit regardless of our religious affiliation or lack thereof. It is God's gift to us because we are his children. It is God's answer to the dream of separation that we are dreaming.

herk

Barry,

I'm not a defender of the WT Society, but I don't think the NWT can be faulted here. It actually follows the Greek better than some other translations and gives fuller expression to what Paul meant. It doesn't really say that the coming of the spirit is something future. Instead, it shows that it has already occurred:

"He has also put his seal upon us and has given us the token of what is to come, that is, the spirit, in our hearts."

The "token" is not "what is to come." Instead, as indicated by the Greek, "the token of what is to come" is an interconnected group of words that corresponds with "the spirit, in our hearts."

A similar sentence would be:

"He also placed his claim on her and gave her the token of what is to come, that is, a beautiful diamond engagement ring."

In both sentences, the "token of what is to come" has already been given. In the first one the seal and the token are the spirit, and in the second the placing and the giving are the ring. The token in neither case is "what is to come," but it is a sign or indication of what is to come.

Herk

IslandWoman

Herk,

Thank you and welcome to the board.

IW

yucca

when I WAS A JW AND WENT TO MEMORIAL I NEVER FELT LIKE I WAS ANOINTED. I NEVER TOOK WINE. YEARS LATER I WENT TO CALVARY CHAPEL IN RIVERSIDE CA. THE SECOND TIME I WENT WHEN THEY GAVE ALTAR CALL TO RECEIVE CHRIST AS MY SAVIOR AND REPENT OF MY SINS. THEN I KNEW THE HOLY SPIRIT HAD ENTERED ME. BOY DID I KNOW. I CANNOT PUT IN WORDS THE FEELING THAT CAME OVER ME. NO I DID NOT START SPEAKING IN TONGUES OR NOTHING LIKE THAT. I DID NOT LOOK ANY DIFFERENT BUT I WAS DIFFERENT. MANY PEOPLE DONT FEEL THE WAY I DID. THEY ARE STILL SAVED. I BELIEVE THE HOLY SPIRIT WANTED ME TO BE SURE SO I WOULDNT EVER GET FOOLED AGAIN. THE HOLY SPIRIT IS FOR EVERY ONE THAT CONFESSES THEY ARE A SINNER AND ACCEPTS CHRIST AS THEIR SAVIOR. IT IS NOT FOR A CERTAIN CLASS OF PEOPLE. THE 144,000 ARE JEWISH PROPHETS WHO WILL BE PREACHING THE TRUTH DURING THE TRIBULATION PERIOD.

herk

Yucca,

I'm convinced JWs are wrong about the 144,000, but I believer your interpretation calls for an explanation. What is the scriptural evidence that "the 144,000 are Jewish prophets who will be preaching the truth during the tribulation period"? I personally could never accept that interpretation any more than I could accept the JW translation, unless of course you can show me from the Bible.

Herk

Navigator

Yucca

Could it have been that the Holy Spirit was there all along and you simply became aware of it during your "conversion" experience?

When does a christian receive the Holy Spirit?

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