I think if there is an afterlife, we make what we can of it. If the anointed members of the governing body are in heaven, then God probably lets them deceive themselves, thinking that they're hot sh*t, walking around, being "kings and priests" ruling over the earth. Then, maybe, oh, let's say a billion years from now they'll finally step outside of their little, self-materialized worlds, and face reality just like we did when we left. As one poster already mentioned, I don't think anything really changes after we die. It's like the little baby with the plastic wheel riding in the back of the car thinking that he's doing all the driving...
Question about the Annointed.
by patricia 17 Replies latest jw friends
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imanaliento
I always pictured them sitting around a huge circlular table discussing all the laws they would impose on us earthlings.
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wildfire
WELLL LETS SEE I THINK I CAN SPEAK WITH A LITTLE AUTHORITY HERE,,,,,,,SINCE I WAS MARRIED TO ONE OF THE HOLIER THAN HOLY ONES FOR ALMOST TEN YEARS AND 3 children later........ HE WAS very sure of himself,,,, conceited,,,, manipulative and oh by the way he also got his jollies by knocking out people twice his size,,,,,, and one time he beat up his fellow brother out in our front yard in front of a multitute of WITNESSES....( I FELT SO BAD FOR THAT BROTHER HIS NAME WAS MIKE AND BOY I THINK IT FREAKED THE HELLOUT OF HIM ,,,, HE LEFT THE STATE AND I HAVE NEVER FOUND HIM AGAIN) AHAHAHHH DO YOU THINK HE IS STILL A BROTHER,,,,, I HAVE MY DOUBTS,,,,, all i know is i and my children suffered years of humiliation and degradation so if that is what Jehovaher had in mind for the HOLY ANNOINTED ONES ,,,,, I THINK MY EX MISSED THE MARK
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herk
Patricia,
The WT says there are two hopes but the Bible says there is only one. (Eph. 1:18; 4:4)
The 144,000 and the great crowd are one and the same.
Revelation 7:9 says the great crowd are "out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues." Revelation 5:9, 10 says regarding those who will reign with Christ that they are "out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you [God] made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth."
Revelation 7:9 also says the great crowd were "before the throne and before the Lamb." Revelation 4:10 and 5:8 say the 24 elders were "before the the One seated upon the throne" and "before the Lamb." The WT interprets the 24 elders as the 144,000.
There are others similarities.
Will the 144,000 alias the great crowd be in heaven or on earth?. At Revelation 5:10, other translations say they will rule "on" the earth.
Since Revelation 21:1 promises a new heaven and earth after the present heaven and earth have passed away, I think our main concern should be to gain salvation. Wherever it will be, the living will be with God and Christ and will see them face to face. There are all kinds of speculations floating around about the hereafter, but I tend to feel we won't know anything much for sure about it until we get there, if indeed we do.
Herk
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plmkrzy
I THINK MY EX MISSED THE MARK
I have to agree with thatWhat one expects is not always what one gets.
Edited by - plmkrzy on 23 November 2002 15:14:29
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AGuest
Dearest Patricia... may you have peace... and may I respond? Thank you.
First, please know that the 144,000 are from among a very literal number; however, they do not alone in making up those who rule with Christ as kings and priests. Herk was right, to some degree. Let me explain:
The 144,000 are "taken from among the sons of Israel"... 12,000 from each tribe, excluding Dan and double for Joseph (Ephraim/Joseph and Mannasseh). And they are not all "Jews", for Jews are from the 2-tribe kingdom of Judah, made up of Judah and Benjamin. They resided in Judea... with their capitol city of Jerusalem. The others are Samaritans, from the 10-tribe kingdom of Israel, which resided in Samaria, with Bethel as their capitol city. That is why my Lord said to the 12, "you will be witnesses of me throughout all Judea... AND SAMARIA." Cornelius, while not a Jew, was a Samaritan (Caesarea was in Samaria). Thus, he, too, was "Israel", which is why Peter was sent to him.
Revelation 7:4-8
a. Joseph got two (2) shares because the son of Jacob (Israel) who was supposed to get them, the firstborn, Reuben, son of Leah, "profaned" his father's bed by sleeping with his father's concubine, Bilhah, the maidservant of Rachel and mother of his brothers, Dan and Naphtali. Thus, the "right of firstborn"... the right to TWO shares, went to Joseph, the firstborn son of the woman Jacob/Israel loved (Rachel). That is why you always here "Ephraim and Manasseh," versus "Joseph." Reuben still received a share, but only one.
Genesis 49:1-28 Genesis 35:22 Deuteronomy 33:16
b. The tribe of Dan was excluded because they "sold" their right when they refused to war against those who had taken their land... and take it back.
The reason there are 144,000 taken from among "the sons of Israel," is because God promised Abraham long ago that by means of his seed all the nations of the earth would bless themselves. However, Abraham's seed, Israel, rejected God... by rejecting GOD's seed, Christ. However, in order to stay true to the promise, God "allotted" 144,000 "seats"... so that Abraham would not be forgotten. Genesis 22:18 Galatians 3:8
3. Because of Israel's rejection of the true king and leader, however, God turned His attention "to the nations" to take out of THEM... "a people for His name." By means of Christ, however, who used the Apostle Paul... the remainder of the kingship/priesthood is taken out of "EVERY nation, tribe, tongue and people"... so that the little flock of Jews... become ONE flock with these... a great crowd which no MAN is able to number... and TOGETHER... these rule as kings and priests... "standing before the throne" and "rendering sacred service in the temple." That was the "sacred secret" that Paul was entrusted with... that due to their lack of FAITH (in Christ), a dulling of the sensibilities of the Jews would take place... until the full number of the nations were brought in.
Romans 11:13, 25, 26
TOGETHER... these... people out of EVERY nation, tribe, tongue and people... AND Israel... both Jews and Samaritans... will rule as kings and priests.
Revelation 5:9, 10 Revelation 7:4, 9, 15
Now, when do they do this and how? First, please know that THEIR "rule" is only 1,000 years; my Lord, however, began his rulership from the moment his sacrifice was accepted in heaven and he SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND of my Father. His rule... unlike his co-rulers... will last longer than 1,000... for it is an "indefinitely lasting" rulership... so that he will rule "forever and ever."
Daniel 2:44 Revelation 11:15 Revelation 20:4
Now, when such ones die, contrary to WTBTS teaching, they do NOT go directly to heaven. Rather, they join their brothers who have already died in the flesh... those who "belong" to the Christ... and CURRENTLY are sleeping... "under the altar." This is the "bosom position of Abraham,"... or the favored position with God. Under His altar. They are given "white robes"... which are "clean"... uncorruptible SPIRIT bodies... which have no sin, sickness or death in them. They rest... or sleep... until the number of their brothers that are still alive in the flesh is "filled". Again, these brothers come from EVERY nation, tribe, etc...
Revelation 6:9-11 Ecclesiastes 12:7
2. When my Lord RETURNS, such ones who have died... those who belonged to the Christ... DURING HIS PRESENCE (which started from the time he appeared on earth... and continues until he returns, for first his presence was visible, now it is invisible)... are resurrected... in their spirit bodies, their "white robes"... which they've already received. This is the "first" resurrection:
Revelation 20:5, 6
3. AT THE SAME TIME... those who have NOT died... do NOT die... but are CHANGED... "metamorphed"... into spirit bodies. They, too, now put on INcorruption... or clean spirit bodies... so that TOGETHER... they meet my Lord... "in the air"... or in the "spirit" realm.
1 Corinthians 15:35-53 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
This is so that he can take them to his Father's house, as his "bride"... those joined in union of SPIRIT with him... where he has "prepare a place" for them. This is the marriage of the Lamb and his Bride. Once "married"... or completely joined in spirit... they sit down on thrones... and begin to separate "sheep"... from "goats". But this does not take place until my Lord returns and takes his "bride" home (into the spirit realm) to be married (joined) to him... for he is the "head"... and they are the Body.
John 14:2
The separating work takes place "in the RECREATION" (meaning that his co-rulers have began as new creations... spirit beings)... in that such co-rulers will either judge and condemn (as kings)... or plead/offer up sacrifices (prayers) for mercy (as priests)... for those gathered before the throne of Christ.
Matthew 24:29-31 Matthew 25:31-46 Revelation 20:4 John 20:22, 23 Luke 6:37
Thus, Christ is resurrected by God as the "firstborn" from the dead. Next, those who belong to the Christ are resurrected by him. And then, there is a "general" resurrection... of the righteous AND the unrighteous... at the END... when my Lord hands all things over to the Father... for judgment. Which takes place... AFTER the 1,000 years have ended. Once God has judged, He then gives all things BACK to the Son... who rules thereafter forever.
Revelation 20:7, 11-15 Daniel 7:9-14 1 Corinthians 15:23-26 John 11:25
I guess you can tell, then, especially if you've looked up the scriptures and verses, that what the WTBTS teaches is melarkey and lies. False and misleading. I hope that you, though, have been able to see the truth of what takes places, as I have been permitted to share it with you, by means of the holy spirit granted to me by my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, the Son and Christ, of the Holy One of Israel, JAH (Psalm 68:4)... of Armies.
Again, I bid you peace.
A servant to the Household of God, Israel... and a slave of Christ,
SJ
Edited by - AGuest on 24 November 2002 1:42:8
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proplog2
I once had a conversation with Karl Klein in which he described Knorr as mean spirited and then related personal experiences where he showed a severe attitude.
I reminded him that Knorr could hear this conversation because he was now in heaven.
Klein looked a little disturbed. His wife laughed and warned him that he'd better watch it.
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herk
Proplog2,
Your experience with Klein was similar to mine. Actually, there were times when both Knorr and Klein showed they had it in for each other. Knorr told me once that the only reason he keeps Klein around is because he's a good writer. Otherwise, and these are Knorr's exact words: "The man is a nut, a screwball!"
Another time, when I was alone with Klein, he ranted and raved about how everybody on the governing body was in agreement except for one man, "one man who is holding up the works and just won't give in." Then he said, "I'll tell you who that one man is! His name is spelled NHK!" Again, those were the exact words.
Herk