Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-24 WT Study

by blondie 13 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • blondie
    blondie

    Sorry this is late.

    COMMENTS YOU WILL NOT HEAR AT THE WT STUDY 11-24-02

    October 1, 2002 Watchtower page 17

    CULTIVATE OBEDIENCE AS THE END DRAWS NEAR

    "To [Shiloh] the obedience of the peoples will belong."Genesis 49:10

    Introduction

    The first thought that went through my mind was why obedience was highlighted so much, what happened to LOVE? If a person has love, isnt obedience to that loved one a natural progression? Then I thought obedience to whom? The theme scripture talks about Shiloh who proved to be Jesus Christ. Yet the first sentence is:

    "Obedience to Jehovah has often involved obedience to his representatives. These have included angels, patriarchs, judges, priests, prophets and kings."

    Can you see the connection that will be made later to "his representatives"? Then they say, "many of Israels rulers disobeyed God, bringing woe upon themselves and their subjects." I dont think the WTS will be applying this to themselves, but shouldnt they?

    JESUS FIRST KINGDOM

    Picture

    8 men in Christian times discussing a scroll (man with scroll is probably James, Jesus brother, the head of the so-called governing body)

    4 men in the 30s (?), one is Macmillan and the one looks JF Rutherford, I dont recognize the other 2, so if you do, post it here

    Caption: Jehovah blesses people of obeying the faithful "steward"

    How is it that Jesus received a first kingdom, isnt there only one? According to the WTS that first one started with the establishment of the Christian congregation at Pentecost 33 C.E. They call it "the kingdom of the Son of his love." (Colossians 1:13) The early Christians were "ambassadors" obediently gathering "fellow citizens" in that spiritual kingdom. These had to remain "fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought" in order to enjoy Jesus approval. "As a group, they constituted a faithful and discreet slave."

    Notice how carefully the WTS chooses scriptures that contain words that everyone must think alike to be approved and how they establish these ones as the FDS (faithful and discreet slave) without any development of proof or explanation. We are the FDS, we say they are the FDS, thus they are the FDS.

    BLESSED FOR OBEYING GODS STEWARD

    Notice how quickly we go from obeying Shiloh or Jesus, to obeying the "steward."

    "Jehovah has always provided teachers for his people." This means he has provided the FDS. Returning from exile in Babylon, "Qualified men did not just read Gods law to the people, they "expounded" that law, putting meaning into it and giving understanding of Gods Word." This is fine and good when these men were following Jehovah. But what before this, the priests and other qualified men had not been doing this properly. That is why the Israelites had spent 70 years in exile in Babylon. What about the Israelites then, should they have listened to those priests who said they represented God but were promoting false worship?

    The key is that each one of us has to examine what we are being taught in light of Gods Word and not just believe anything we are told because someone says they represent God.

    And now the magical process of arriving at Jehovahs thoughts on a matter. "Prayerfully considered the matter and came to a Scriptural conclusion." Now isnt that special! Thats what I do too! But notice how I forgot to send a letter to all the congregations.

    But the "early slave class" "announced their decision by letter" "the congregations obeyed the direction given AND enjoyed Gods rich blessing." This is the second time approval from God and Jesus depends on obedience to the FDS.

    In the first century the issue of circumcision was discussed. "The faithful slave through its Governing Body has clarified such important issues as Christian neutrality (are they talking about the flip-flip in alternative service), the sanctity of blood (from no blood to blood fractions derived from stored blood and made up of hemoglobin), and the use of drugs (no immunizations) and tobacco (not till after Rutherford died because it is rumored he smoked cigars).

    Now pay attention to these next sentences.

    "Jehovah blessed his people for obedience to his Word AND the faithful slave."

    Yes, folks you cannot obey the Bible without obeying the faithful slave. But you can obey the faithful slave and not obey his Word. And once again Gods blessings are dependent on being obedient to the FDS.

    "By submitting to the slave class, Gods people also show their subjection to the Master, Jesus Christ."

    Slave class = Jesus Christ. Priests = Jehovah God. You cannot be subject to Jesus or God unless you are subject to the slave class. Does that mean we have to pray through the FDS too?

    SHILOH BECOMES EARTHS RIGHTFUL RULER

    "The Bible reveals that Jesus received that authority at the end of the prophetic "seven times""the appointed times of the nations"in 1914." Notice how they string 2 completely different scriptures together by using snippets. Also, no explanation of this bold assertion is given in the article. The reader is invited to read the Knowledge book instead. "In that year, Christs invisible presence as Messianic King began." Actually, for years, 1874 was given as the date of Jesus presence was not corrected until 1943, 67 years later.

    *** w74 8/15 506-7 No Spiritual "Energy Crisis" for Discreet Ones ***
    In 1877, Russell joined Nelson H. Barbour in publishing the book Three Worlds, and the Harvest of This World. It indicated that the end of the Gentile Times in 1914 would be preceded by a forty-year period to open with a three-and-a-half-year harvest beginning in 1874 C.E. According to Bible chronology thereafter adopted, it was understood that 6,000 years of mans existence on earth ended in 1872, whereas six millenniums of human sin concluded and the seventh millennium began in 1874. Christs presence was thought to have begun in October 1874, at the start of the great antitypical Jubilee.Lev. chap. 25; Rev. 20:4.

    From that understanding, it was thought that the "chaste virgin" class began going forth to meet the Bridegroom in 1874. (2 Cor. 11:2) Hence, when C. T. Russell began publishing a new religious magazine in July 1879, it was called "Zions Watch Tower and Herald of Christs Presence." It was heralding Christs presence as having begun in 1874. This invisible presence was expected to continue until the Gentile Times ended in 1914, when the Gentile nations would be destroyed and the remnant of the "chaste virgin" class would be glorified with their Bridegroom in heaven by death and resurrection to live in the spirit. (1 Cor. 15:42-44) Thus would the "discreet virgin" class enter through the door into the wedding.

    In 1943 the Watch Tower Societys book "The Truth Shall Make You Free" did away with the nonexistent extra 100 years in the period of the Judges and placed the end of 6,000 years of mans existence in the 1970s. It also fixed the beginning of Christs presence, not in 1874, but in 1914 C.E.

    Since 1914, "Satan along with his demons" have hurled "down to the earth" making "obedience to Jehovah a challenge." "In fact, the main target of Satans spiritual warfare consists of Jehovahs anointed ones" and "their other sheep companions." Do wonder why so many JWs think they are special targets of Satan and the demons and have so many demon stories to tell?

    "Jesus" will "ensure the final sealing of the 144,000 spiritual Israelites." Now do you know" what that means?

    *** re 116 19 Sealing the Israel of God ***
    So here on earth the testing and sifting of the remaining spirit-begotten sons of God must go on until Jesus and his accompanying angels will have firmly implanted the seal in the forehead of all of these, identifying them conclusively, irrevocably, as tried and faithful "slaves of our God." That seal then becomes a permanent mark. Evidently, when the four winds of tribulation are unleashed, all of spiritual Israel will have been sealed in finality, even though a few ( if the anointed keep increasing in number, 30 more this year, the great tribulation will get pushed back farther) will still be alive in the flesh. (Matthew 24:13; Revelation 19:7) The entire membership will be complete!Romans 11:25, 26.

    *** re 276-7 38 Praise Jah for His Judgments! ***
    16 After decades of testing, Paul himself could declare: "I have fought the fine fight, I have run the course to the finish, I have observed the faith. From this time on there is reserved for me the crown of righteousness , which the Lord, the righteous judge, will give me as a reward in that day, yet not only to me, but also to all those who have loved his manifestation." (2 Timothy 4:7, 8 ) The apostles sealing appears to have been complete, even though he was still in the flesh and would yet face martyrdom. Similarly, the time must come when all remaining ones on earth of the 144,000 will have been sealed individually as belonging to Jehovah. (2 Timothy 2:19) This will be when the Lambs wife will have fully prepared herselfthe great majority of the 144,000 having already received their heavenly reward and those still on earth having been finally approved and sealed as faithful ones.

    Do you understand now? Let me know, I dont.

    NOW IS THE TIME TO "OBEY THE GOOD NEWS"

    "All who want everlasting life must learn obedience." What is a WT study without everlasting life being held out as a carrot. Everlasting life = Obedience to the FDS.

    "Likewise today, Gods spirit, the most powerful force in the universe, is helping millions to become obedient to Jehovah" really obedient though to the FDS, Gods representative, according to them.

    AVOID APATHY, IMMORALITY, MATERIALISM

    "Today, some once-zealous Christians have likewise lost the fervent love they formerly had for God." For God or for the FDS?

    "And how can such love be reinvigorated?" (how can such "obedience" be reinvigorated?)

    "By regular Bible study, meeting attendance, prayer and meditation." And you must do all of these when, where and how the WTS says you will. You will attend 5 weekly meetings, you will pray the way we say (have you ever noticed how many brothers pray using the same phrases and words), regular Bible study (of WT publications, Bible optional), and meditation, (isnt that forbidden to JWs)?

    "If honest self-examination reveals that your love has cooled off" really means the elders critical examination of you reveals that your obedience to them and the FDS is lacking.

    "Immorality is by far the leading cause of disfellowshipping among Gods people."

    I guess some things never change. Having sex is definitely more attractive than apostasy unless you can combine the two (no offense meant).

    "Avoid association with all individuals, inside and outside the congregation, who are a morally corrupting influence." Avoid those "inside" the congregation! Now we must judge our fellow believers. I wonder what criteria should be used, Gods or the Elder Talmud?

    "Eschew (simple language eh?) questionable entertainment as well as printed and Internet pornography." Internet pornography seems to be a growing problem and it is so hard for the elders to catch someone, probably because some of the worst offenders are elders.

    Picture

    Young woman reading the Bible

    Same young woman at work in an office refusing flowers from a would-be beau as she looks away from him

    Caption: A strong relationship with Jehovah helps us to be obedient to him (would have been better to show some man looking at pornography)

    "Some once-faithful (once-zealous previously) Christians, have also fallen into the same pattern of disobedience" boasting about their material wealth as in Sardis.

    "Perhaps they have allowed the spirit of the world to sap the sense of urgency from their lives (or maybe it is the dates set over the years by the WTS that have proven false), thus developing a spiritually lukewarm attitude toward Bible study, prayer, Christian meetings, and the ministry (didnt they state these already in this article). How important to obey Christ (obey the FDS)."

    COMMENDED FOR THEIR OBEDIENCE

    "In "the Lords day," beginning in 1914, sharing zealously. Others have kept Jesus word by maintaining a simple eye, despite being surrounded by affluence and greed (the circuit assembly for 2002-2003 hammers the point that JWs are too materialistic and are not pioneering).

    "As we approach the great tribulation,,,not to compromise its obedience to the Master, Christ." "So let us continue to appreciate Jehovahs wonderful theocratic organization (FDS) and what it provides. In this way, we will demonstrate our submission to Shiloh (Jesus), who will

    reward all his obedient subjects with everlasting life ." (the carrot mentioned again)

  • reubenfine
    reubenfine
    Yes, folks you cannot obey the Bible without obeying the faithful slave. But you can obey the faithful slave and not obey his Word. And once again Gods blessings are dependent on being obedient to the FDS.

    LMAO! I love your posts, blondie. I didn't see the article, but did the good judge have a glass of whiskey in his hand while he sunned in Beth Sarim! hehe

  • LyinEyes
    LyinEyes

    Thank you Blondie for all you do, in getting the lasted rotten, I mean spiritual food!!!

    It helps me to see that I have made the right choice to stay away from that borg.

    You would think as many people they are losing, they would lighten up a bit,,,, but NO! There are getting even stricter, like you said even judging those in the congregation as bad association. Well I guess they between the lines, admit that there are alot of "bad seeds" within....hehe.

    I love the way you narrarate this and put your ideas in there..........LOL at it should have been a man reading a porno book.......... Dede

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Right on again, Blondie.

    The following are my own comments on WT October 1, 2002 Comfort in a Troubled World, Nov 24 Study, "Cultivate Obedience as the End Draws Near"

    P. 1, 2 I did my own study on Shiloh here. Jesus consistently fulfilled many prophesies foretelling his arrival from Genesis on. His kingship and authority have been firmly established.

    P. 3 When Jesus ascended in to heaven, he did not immediately take up the scepter of rulership over the peoples of the world. The references given (Psalm 110:1, Colossians 1:13, Acts 2:1-4) provide no proofs as to when Jesus' kingship was established.

    P.4 As "ambassadors substituting for Christ", the spirit-anointed disciples obediently started to gather others who would become "fellow citizens" in that spiritual kingdom. From Acts 2:43-47 I inferred that the Holy Spirit gathered, and the disciples enthusiastically participated with joy and generosity. Did the first century Christians have circuit overseers and time cards to monitor this enthusiastic gathering activity?

    Additionally , these had to remain "fitly in the same mind and in the same line of thought" in order to enjoy the approval of their King Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 1:1)

    Paul was reprimanding the people for dividing over silly arguments,
    "Some of you are saying, "I am a follower of Paul." Others are saying, "I follow Apollos," or "I follow Peter," or "I follow only Christ" 1 Corinthians 1:12NLT or, "I follow the Faithful and Discreet Slave". oops. Did I just add two what is written?

    P.5, 6 Jehovah has always provided teachers for his people Yes, the FDS is priming us for the key message of this article, that the FDS is the exclusive spirit-anointed teacher of Jehovah's Word today. Um, excuse me, raising hand...who provided food in season for faithful Christians between the time of the first-century Christians to modern times? The Aryans? Forerunners to the Seventh-Day Adventists? That sure left a lot of faithful Christians out in the cold, didnt it? Come to think of it, if the FDS is right, there are billions of Christians today that are left out in the cold as well. What are the signs accompanying the FDS's claim to exclusive providers of our Masters food?

    the Governing Body has clarified such important issues as

    ..tithing mint and cummin? (Matthew 23:23)

    P. 7 Hold your noses, folks...By submitting to the slave class, God's people also show their subjection to the Master, Jesus Christ. How many times was the existence of the FDS foretold in the Hebrew scriptures? In the Greek scriptures? Hold it a moment. Servants and slaves are at the bottom of the ladder. They do not direct, they submit. Jesus asked the disciples to be servants to each other. No one was to be greater than his brother. He set the example, and asked all who followed him to do the same.

    Could they be referring to

    Behold, my servant whom I have chosen; My beloved in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my Spirit upon him, And he shall declare judgment to the Gentiles. Mat 12:18 ASV

    - but that refers to Jesus.

    • The Parable of the Unforgiving Slave? Matthew 18:21-35
    • The Parable of the King's Servants? Matthew 25:14-30, Luke 19:11-27
    • The Parable of the Evil Farmers? Mark 12:1-12, Luke 20:8-19, Matthew 21:23-27 - but the servant here was murdered. Jesus was talking of himself.

    None of these scriptures imply that blind obedience to the slave is required. On the contrary, these parables make it clear that servants are held accountable for their actions.

    No longer do I call you servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I heard from my Father, I have made known unto you. John 15:5 ASV

    Can we be a friend of Jesus in these last days?

    P. 8 In that year (1914) Christs invisible "presence" as Messianic King began..Um, excuse me teacher, how does the following scripture apply?

    For as the lightning lights up the entire sky, so it will be when the Son of Man comes. Matthew 24:27 NLT

    P. 9 Since then, these wicked spirits have fomented unprecedented woe for mankind, besides fostering an environment that makes obedience to Jehovah a challenge. It is a commonly held belief that we are living in the wickedest time of the world, and experiencing unprecedented natural disasters. This is a belief that has been common to man for as long as we have had the written word. The worst disaster in the world, according to the Guinness Book of World Records, was the Pandemic of 1347-51. The Black Death claimed an estimated 75 million people. People believed back then the end times were upon them, too. Why is obedience to Jehovah a challenge?

    Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Matthew 11:29, 30 ASV

    In fact, the main target of Satans spiritual warfare consists of Jehovahs anointed ones...and their "other sheep" companions.

    Perhaps the sheep are not burdened down by Satan, but by heavy burden of the interpretation of the law.
    For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 1 John 5:3-5 ASV
    Yea, they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with their finger. Matthew 23:4 ASV

    10 Satan is doomed to failure. What a relief. That picture of Satans demons being hurled to earth had me terrified for a moment there. Unlike their anointed companions, however, these ones will become Jesus obedient earthly subjects (Daniel 7:13,14) Gee. The Daniel reference does not make any mention of "other sheep". That scripture makes it sound like Jesus is given dominion over the whole world, all 6,292,456,884 of them.

    11 Those who are not obedient to the good news will be destroyed. What is the good news?

    12 Nope. Not talking about good news. We are back on Satan and "the spirit of the world" again.

    13 Wow! They snuck in my favourite scripture! Galatians 5:22, 23. That scripture is not about obedience. Or the good news.

    14 Oh. The seven candlesticks and seven stars were not seven different Churches, but seven congregations of the Jehovahs Witnesses. (Revelation 1:10, 11) I wonder which ones? Japan? Europe? Africa? I guess these admonitions will not be of any use outside of the WTS. Where is the good news we are to be obedient to?

    15-19 The seven letters are expounded upon. No more mention of the fruit of the spirit (Galatians 5:22, 23). No more mention of the good news. More talk about keeping morally pure, regular bible study, meeting attendance, prayer and meditation.

    It seems to me that Witnesses should be up on what the good news is, if they want to avoid destruction.

    16 Yes, for immorality is by far the leading cause for disfellowshipping among Gods people. How important, therefore, that we avoid association with all individuals - inside and outside the congregation - who are morally corrupting influences...eschew questionable entertainment as well as printed and Internet pornography. Based on the illustration,a guy with a tacky tie and flowers is morally corrupting influence. Picture Laverne and Squiggy from the Laverne and Shirley show. Better keep away from mom and dad and brothers and sisters and children and neighbours and grandma and grandpa and in-laws and all those worldly folks, no matter how nice they seem. Better stop taking the bus to work. Darn. Work is full of them too. Better work from home. Or better still, begin full-time Pioneer work. Use gloves when knocking on the strangers door. All that corruption might be contagious!

    20 In the Lords day, beginning in 1914, a faithful remnant and their other sheep companions, now numbering millions, have also kept Jesus word by sharing zealously in the ministry and by holding fast to their integrity. Yes, but have they been sharing the good news? Do they even know what the good news is? And what of the great crowd of witnesses, the heroes of the faith, who have stood for God over the last 2000 years? What of them?

    21 As we approach the great tribulation, the faithful and discreet slave remains resolved not to compromise its obedience to the Master, Christ. Thats lucky for them (oops I mean fortunate). Jesus promised some pretty nasty stuff for unfaithful slaves who hurt his sheep. This includes preparing timely spiritual food for Gods household. I am waiting...what is the good news? So let us continue to appreciate Jehovahs wonderful theocratic organization. I dont think so. I will be obedient to the good news, not imperfect men in an imperfect organization.

    Note: Italics are quotes from WT materials.

    I use Quotes for bible references.
  • musky
    musky

    Blondie, Thanks for the post. It amazes me that, while being told to read and study the bible, we are told that there is only one conclusion to come to. THEN WHY STUDY THE BIBLE ITSELF AS A WITNESS? THE FDS HAS DONE THAT FOR US ALREADY (venting, sorry).

    Thanks again for all your hard work Blondie

  • blondie
    blondie

    Thanks everyone for your comments, and jgnat for your research. I don't usually get into the Bible part of it but the deception and manipulation part of the articles.

    Yes, the WTS is worried. People are not responding to the verbal and written abuse. Attendance was down at both circuit assemblies (after all who really knows if you are there or not). I was a JW during the 60's and 70's and I can remember the hustle and bustle and the expect hearts. Those were the days of Vietnam and the draft, the sexual revolution, hippies and demonstrations. How could it end it anyway but with the great tribulation?

    Now even with 911, Osama, Iraq, and the economy looming over our heads, the urgency is not there and some of the worst offenders are the elders. Can you imagine, 25% of all the elders are stepping aside every year? There are few MS because brothers are not reaching out and the young men are leaving. The CO tried to shame the elders in the circuit. The only result will be more elders leaving and fewer wanted to be MS.

    Blondie

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Thanks, Blondie. Your comments are so valuable. For a newcomer, the progression of ideas in WT articles seems reasonable, and the quotes and references provide a sense of authority. Although ultimately unfulfilling, the articles do suggest that the "deeper things of god" are to be discovered just around the corner. But the in-depth knowledge never arrives. Instead, once you are in, seemingly innocuous terms take on ominous tones. Blondie, you point out the ominous message in these seemingly innocuous articles, exposing the truth. You help us all see it.

    Apostate - cut off from Witness family and friends. An apostate is slated for death.

    Faithful and Discreet Slave - a group of imperfect men who have claimed exclusive access to Jehovahs will, exclusive interpreters of the Word of God, and exclusive providers of the Word to their people. They claim complete humility while demanding complete loyalty.

    Fear Jehovah - Fear death.

    Humble, Meek, Obedient, Submit - A Witness is to display these characteristics when submitting to the authority of the Slave. If he fails, see Apostate.

    Imperfect - It was Adams imperfection that got him kicked out of Eden and slated for death. This word is also used to used as a blanket excuse for all errors made by the Slave. See True Christian.

    Loyalty - Never say anything negative about the Watchtower Society or the Slave. See Humble.

    Readjust Your Thinking - Believers are told how to think and feel. Any deviants are instructed to conform or be cut out. See Apostate.

    Timely Spiritual Food - Pablum provided in printed form on the first and the fifteenth of the month. No matter how long a Witness waits, the meat never arrives.

    True Christian - A Witness dances on the head of a pin, toiling to remain pure and acceptable to the local KH. One small slip, and it is Apostacy for them.

    Worldly - Anything and anyone outside of the life of a Witness. Worldly leads to death.

    Edited by - jgnat on 24 November 2002 13:2:16

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Blondie, I just took a peek at the next two studies. Oppose the Devil, and then Jehovah Cares for You with a lovely picture of Job with all his scabs. All this negativity is wearing me down. How do you do it week after week? I might take a new approach and prepare some alternative studies; Love Wins and Bible Heroes the WT Avoids.

  • blondie
    blondie

    jgnat, I guess I have to for the moment. I get some joy out of deciphering the hidden messages and the manipulations. If just one lurker here looks at the WT articles with more discernment, I will feel my time is justified. I have a certain goal I have to meet before I cut the cord. I know it can never be completely unless I have a lobotomy done. As I have posted elsewhere, my exposure to the Bible helped me through a rough time in my abusive family. It was God all along helping me not the WTS which gets in the way of my relationship with him.

    It is good to keep these abilities to examine any information we encounter on the road of life. The WTS is not the only abusive group we will encounter nor the only individuals. No sense in getting out of the frying pan and into the fire.

    Blondie (putting on her fire gear)

  • acsot
    acsot

    Blondie!! Where were you!! (and congrats on making the Emperor Class!) Since I dont have internet access at home I missed your post and had to sit through yesterdays regurgitation without your enlightening comments! It was beyond boring we actually had several guess who they are comments going on around the photo of Rutherford et al, kind of like GB/Anointed Bingo. I mean, there were around 4 or 5 comments, back and forth, its Rutherford, its not Rutherford, its MacMillan, its not MacMillan then, yes it gets better! Homework! Try and figure out at home who these four men are! OMG!! I almost fell off my chair with the tedium of it all.

    Then of course there were several comments about judging the ones inside the congregation yes, we are mandated by the Society to judge the ones inside as to whether or not they are worthy enough of our association. Talk about having your emotions deadened!

    Also, the definition of eschew took up a few minutes also. Thank God Ive registered for college classes next semester, I need to save whatever brain cells I have left!

    Thankfully I wont make it to next weeks meeting, have theatre tickets and will need to leave early to get there on time! Soooooooo sad!!

    Thanks again Blondie for your comments!

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