So, am I a phoney?

by kenpodragon 57 Replies latest jw friends

  • kenpodragon
    kenpodragon

    I have taken a break from the baby wait to come to the board and see what is happening. Recently I had a run in with some people from another board, that also attend this board. In a search of my name on this site, I see that people (two weeks later) are still mentioning this and me. So I will address these comments in a way I hope does not lead to combat and flame wars. I will actually say things that should quiet down anything that is followed.

    First I would like to mention "rights" as I think that is a very key word in this life. We have the "right" as humans to be imperfect, to have emotions and to have the ability to make discussions we might later see as extreme or harmful. Those right can be used to hurt, to help and to build up and destroy. People need to realize, that as much as you love and appreciate your rights ... you must see others as having the same rights, as well. Speaking against them, is speaking in support of controlling people and taking away their freedoms.

    So did I have the right on another board to say something against silentlambs? Yes, I did. Why? Because personally I think there are other organizations out there that can help in a positive way and I wanted my fellow Ex-Jw's to know about these as well and not think this one is the only one out there. This very board JWD taught me a lot about silentlambs. I read thoughts from Bill Bowen, and frankly they disturbed me personally. They made me feel that there was some anger involved and some vendetta's that were being placed into what I saw as a "good cause". Some might not remember this, but one of my post from this board was actually used by Bill Bowen (silentlambs) in his news letters.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=34493&site=3

    What I saw from the man after that point concerned me, bothered me and made me feel uncomfortable in my support of him. Then I read several examples of other people that felt the same way, and even read silentlambs calling people on this site "stupid" for asking questions. Basically, this site turned my support on Silentlambs as I read more and more about it. It left a bad taste in my mouth. When I asked questions, made comments and even made simple statements. Supporters attacked me and all they wanted to do was call me names, argue and even rile me up to the point that I argued back. What a waste on both of our parts. So when I saw this online information, been in and witnessed many battles from both sides, I must say "I personally would not recommend Silent lambs" and I have that right. The thing is, you have the right to disagree with me as well. It might shock people to know, that I personally did not find Raymond Franz's book all that insightful and rewarding for me either, and I do not follow him as well. I thought his book was interesting, but I felt he was promoting the Bible and Christianity and I do not enjoy either.

    Now, did I go to extreme on another site and say mean things about silentlambs? I think I did, I think my frustration bubbled up to the point that I expressed my views in bad taste and with a emotion that is not productive. Does that make me a phony then, to say one thing on here about love and peace and enjoying life, and then being so negative and callous towards people in thier views, especially when abuse is involved? To some it might, to some they might see me as a human being who has emotions about something and expressing my views or feeling attacked for being open with my thoughts. I am a black belt in martial arts, I honestly work at controlling my emotions all the time, so that I do not harm people who upset me. I am not, however, Mr. Spock and spending all my life saying "emotions are illogical." I get pissed, hurt, angry, happy, comforting and even arrogant at times. Basically, I never placed myself on a pedestal to be knocked off, people who saw me as such, put me there themselves. If you saw me as a leader, that is your vision and not mine, I only lead myself!!!

    So, people wonder now "do I support silentlambs?" and the answer is "I support abuse survivors". In that support I want to send people I care about to love, and if I do not get attacked for sharing my opinions, then I know it is about love and I would send people there in a heart beat. If I get attacked again and told I am blocking something for good people with hate and anger, I look at that as a warning sign and say "I don't want my friends who have been hurt, to be hurt more by others who are angry." That is my criteria and it makes sense to me. I have that right!

    Now in my frustration I attacked people I felt attacked by. In doing so, I could debate on this board in thread after thread how I felt I was justified and they would counter with the same, in the end though I would rather just say "Sorry Rhonda, I did not mean to hurt you or to make you seem belittled, I felt hurt as much as you did." As for others that were attacked by me in those threads, it was only one other person in question and mentioning them is a waste of my time. Basically though, I am not one who likes to be attacked for sharing my thoughts and I am very protective of my friends and those whom I care about. I also have a very thin filter for lies and I know when it is being shared.

    So in conclusion, I would like to ask, "what is so hard about saying I am sorry?" As I freely apologize to those whom I have offended with my thoughts. I just sit hear amazed that I hardly ever witness anyone else doing the same. Even seeing comments were people think apologizing is back down, and shows a lack of character. If you challenged me to a fight, and I talked you out of it by saying I am sorry. You might think "wimp", "I won" and then later you find out I know about a 1000 ways to harm and kill you. Would you still think I am a wimp, or would you be glad I ended it before anyone got truly hurt? Think that way, does not make you a follower of mine ... I am not some guru or leader, if you see me as such, then something is wrong in your mind. If you apologize, it shows that you understand that some times you say things that hurt people. It shows that you admit your "spontaneous stupidity" and "lack of understanding" as much as the next person. You basically say "look I was too human today with you, and I need to say sorry as I went beyond a limit you can accept and handle (that limit is crossed when emotions get heated)." It is not backing down, it is not being a coward, it is not saying "I am a chicken", it is saying nothing more then "I want to move on a be a source of positive and not negative." Plain and simple! You have the right to speak, the right to think and the right to admit when you are right and wrong. You have the right and so do I!

    So am I a phoney? Only if your illusion of me was something other then the truth and reality of life. I am just human, like everyone else.

    Thanks for taking the time to read ...

    My thought

    Dragon

    Edited by - kenpodragon on 26 November 2002 21:41:32

  • LB
    LB

    I see no phoney here Ken. Many have been upset by some of Bill's comments and I for one would wish we'd just let it go. But there seem to have been lines drawn. I guess we all have the right to disagree. I think we aren't very skilled at disagreeing though. Enemys don't always have to be made. Maybe it's the years in the borg that reduced our ability to disagree with someone without seeing pure evil?

    Ken I have a feeling you may be down here in the Rogue Valley. If you'd ever like to meet up for lunch or something e-mail me.

  • bay64me
    bay64me

    Kenpodragon

    So what? we all have the absolute right to say what we think or feel!

    Only cultish regimes think that they have the right to supress us!

    I, for one am glad to see you back. I never replied to your posts, as somebody else rather eloquently said......there was not much else to add after you had said your piece.(my attempt at a paraphrase), But I always enjoyed reading them!

    I hope that all went well with the birth and I also know that those first moments and days are very precious and I wish you both well

    Please post when you can.

    Bay64me.

  • Francois
    Francois

    LB, Ken, I wish Bill would let it go as well. Bill making ANY statements in anger about ANYONE, even including the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses is inappropriate for a professional presentation. In a professional presentation, in my opinion, only facts should be presented and the reader should be left to draw their own opinions. For Bill to draw conclusions FOR his readers is inappropriate. For Bill to carry on a private argument or disagreement with or about Ray is inappropriate. He manifestly gets off message when he does that. Such behavior is entirely unprofessional and he hurts his message and his efforts, thus he hurts the very people he so wants to help when he engages in such unprofessional behavior.

    (And just so he will know that I'm not just a freelance fault-finder here, I'd like Bill to know that my undergraduate experience and education is in the journalism of mass communication, and I have thirty years experience in professional, business-oriented communications of all kinds. I know whereof I speak. Bill, you need to drop it and concentrate on your message and only on your message.)

  • kelpie
    kelpie

    No I do not think you are a phoney.

    As you have said... sometimes people just snap. They have been pushed and pushed until they can't get pushed anymore.

    It takes a real person and a strong person to be able to say "I stuffed up, Im sorry, please forgive me"

    It also takes a real person to be able to accept the apology and let it go.

    Thanks for posting that Dragon and I cant wait to hear what little rugrat you are blessed with.

    Kelps (who loves babies)

  • freedom96
    freedom96

    Kenpo-

    I was glad to see a posting by you, explaining some of the crap that had been going on. Personally, I don't care what happened, that was between you and others, and I feel that everyone has the right to their own opinions.

    I admire those that can stand up for what they believe in, even if it goes against the grain a bit.

    I have enjoyed your postings in the past. I too, am a black belt in the martial arts, and so I have a certain amount of respect towards you in that regard too, and what you have been able to accompish and learn through your journey in the arts.

    Either way, best wishes to you, and I sincerely hope that you stay and give us your thoughts. enjoy.

  • Trauma_Hound
    Trauma_Hound
    I wish Bill would let it go as well.

    And whens the last time Bill mentioned anything about this? How many weeks ago! LOL your laugh.

  • LB
    LB

    Francois I'm with you there. While Bill is doing great work he has hurt himself and to a certain degree his cause.. That's a shame. But like us, he's a wretched human. Prone to mistakes.

  • gsx1138
    gsx1138

    It seems to me that Bill still has Elderitis. I also agree that some think he's some kind of F-saint. He has done allot of good but that doesn't make him infallable. If he makes statements that only reveal that on occasion he is a complete moron like the rest of us it's no big deal. Sometimes I think you're too verbose Kenpo and I'm sure I annoy more than a few people on these boards so I wouldn't worry too much. I still enjoy your posts and I don't think Bill deserves special consideration either.

  • kenpodragon
    kenpodragon

    Thanks for the positive comments, but I really want it known I was being a jerk at the time in my frustration and I really want people to know I realize that. I can be a very protective and aggressive person at times, and a little to passionate in my thoughts and thinking. I don't want to underestimate that I know I was being that way, and have follow-ups of people going ... "but you said this and that" about silent lambs and to Rhonda. As I know, admit and apologize for doing such. Looking back now, and being in the major life change I am approaching. It seems so petty and simple now, and I wonder why I ever let myself get so upset. Life is just funny that way, I guess ... especially when we are on "baby watch."

    My thought

    Dragon

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