Mother-In-Law 2

by silentlambs 19 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • silentlambs
    silentlambs

    Well here it is folks the response to my wife's letter. i guess i have become more evil between letters. Once again any ideas as to how to answer this type of logic?

    btw can you count the number of times the word "organization" is used?
    silentlambs

    Dear Daughter,
    To answer your question on how do I not know, but that what silentlambs is doing is Jehovah’s way of getting things changed, the reason I know it’s not is because Jehovah works through his organization, changing things from within not through worldly media and people who are bringing reproach on him and his people. Talk about an ostrich with its head in the sand. You are following an imperfect rebellious man, not Jesus Christ our leader and exempler. You’ve chosen to focus on one issue and disregard the most important issue, the sanctifying and vindication of Jehovah’s name and getting the good news preached before the end. I’ve mentioned this more than once and when you answer you always ignore it. Ya’ll are actively influencing others to turn against Jehovah’s Organization causing some to lose faith like the sisters husband I told you about in my last letter. His blood will be on silentlambs head. What do you call people who cause others to doubt and turn away form Jehovah and his organization?? You cannot stop all children from being abused just as no one can stop incest, physical abuse, etc… It happens outside and in Jehovah’s Organization from those not truly applying his standards. Jehovah will judge them and bring them to justice. In the mean time family can turn abusers or those highly suspected in. I know of cases where that was done and the ones who turned the individuals in were not disciplined by the congregation. How sad that you choose to spend the remaining time in this system working against Jehovah’s Organization. Somewhere along the line under your husbands very subtle but persuasive influence you have lost the immensely good sense and wonderful discernment you had and are like a horse with blinders on that can only see in one direction. Don’t bother trying to reason with me and I won’t try with you anymore. My faith is stronger than ever. Part of the prophecy was how there would be those who would turn away from the truth. We’re supposed to meet together and all the more so as we behold the day drawing near. That is scriptural and you know it. Your dad and sister have told me they do not agree with ya’ll and don’t want to talk to you about it. It’s pretty sad when DF persons can see how wrong your course is, but you can’t.
    One isolating himself will seek his own selfish longing, in this case-do or die on one issue.
    Thanks silentlambs, I’ve lost not only a daughter but one whom I considered my closest friend. When I say lost I mean having the very close relationship we had. I will never approve of what you are doing.
    Your Mother

  • d0rkyd00d
    d0rkyd00d

    I'm so sorry buddy. I don't know how to answer that type of logic, but would like to say that i truly feel for you and you will be in my prayers.

    Just never give up hope.

  • uncle_onion
    uncle_onion

    I have never called the JWs a mind controlling cult but the more I see the more I am beginning to think that it is. This type of reasoning can only be explained by that definition.

    I am glad that I am out of it.

    UO

  • waiting
    waiting

    hello silentlambs,

    I'm sorry for your problems and the ones put upon your wife and family. Your mother-in-law is hurting and probably feeling the brunt of shunning even upon her for your actions. It goes with the jw territory. Guilt and shame are the weapons of her congregation.

    I am a mother, so I tried to visualize what she's feeling. Guilt, shame, anger, and the loss of her family as she knew it. I'm surprised she was so in control of her emotions in her letter. Strong woman, even though I don't agree with her arguments.

    If I were to venture a guess on how to respond (and most likely wrong), I would suggest going on the premise of "maintaining a clean conscience before all men" and the scripture of Jesus about not stopping the little children from coming to him. A cunning way to stop children is to rape them and ridicule, then heaping shame and frustration upon them for speaking up.

    By the WTBTS "organization" covering, or not taking a strong stand to protect it's youngest brothers and sisters, they are not following Jesus' lead, thus calling into question their faithfulness to Bible teachings. Can we see Jesus protecting a rapist among his disciples?

    How could a true christian sit quietly back and suffer the spiritual death of one more child? Your mother-in-law says that the brother who left because of your words is bloodguilt on your hands. Where is the bloodguilt of all the raped children? On whose hands? It would be on the hands of the molester/rapist, and any organization or individual which did not take a strong stand against them - or even worse, covered for the molester/rapist.

    Your mother-in-law is correct that no one can totally stop a molester/rapist. But that doesn't mean we stop trying. Why did the shepherd leave his whole flock of sheep to go in search of the one lost lamb? To protect it - and he did. Can we do any less, and maintain a clean conscience before God and men, if we don't try in every way possible to protect our children?

    Many of us fail with our children. Many of us turn a deaf ear to other children's cry of pain. For whatever reasons we have, this is what we have to answer to ourselves and to God for - it is not a question of maintaining discipline within the WTBTS organization.

    This would seem to be a biblical area where our actions speak louder than our words.

    "Faith without works is dead."

    Thank you again for giving victims, survivors, and their families a chance at a voice to bring changes about within the WTBTS organization.

    waiting

  • joelbear
    joelbear

    Silent,

    All you can do is show love. Reason is useless with someone who is involved in a cult. Love is the answer. Do all things with love and you will prosper. But you already know that I am sure.

    virtual hugs

    Joel

  • myMichelle
    myMichelle

    I couldn't read past this:

    You cannot stop all children from being abused just as no one can stop incest, physical abuse, etc… It happens outside and in Jehovah’s Organization from those not truly applying his standards.


    What an attitude. It nauseated me. "I can't stop the abuse happening in the world, so I'm not even gonna try, damn the kids and other victims involved that's just the way it is." How pathetic.

    Michelle

  • sunflowers30
    sunflowers30

    Logic doesn't really work on this type of reasoning does it?
    I would make two points:

    #1 Jehovah God does not need any human to vindicate his name or clear his name. He is perfectly capable of that on his own.
    Whatever "reproach" we see, it comes from earthly sinful humans, not God.
    He never held back from punishing his "earthly organization" of Israel when
    they deserved it. He didn't care what the other nations thought of him.
    He even let the "pagan" nations wipe them out occasionally.
    It wasn't beneath him to use other nations to fix a problem.
    #2 In Jesus brief time on earth, he never held back from criticizing God's
    "earthly organization" at that time. He had an anger that was justified.
    When he saw evil and misdeeds amoung the Jewish leaders, he denounced it
    for what it was. He didn't have a meek "let's wait for God to fix this" attitude.

    Just my 2cents.

    Regards,
    Sunflowers30

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    Silent (Bill)

    This letter stated the following:

    "Thanks silentlambs, I’ve lost not only a daughter but one whom I considered my closest friend. When I say lost I mean having the very close relationship we had. I will never approve of what you are doing. Your Mother"

    It is always nice to see someone putting an organization ahead and at the expense of everything else. I always enjoy how people are taught how to miss the message and attack the messenger.

    What you have done is probably one of the best things ever to protect a large number of people from pain and suffering (even though those you are protecting don't exactly see it that way thanks to the leaders message). And protecting people over rides everything and at least you and your wife have recognized that - thank you.

    hawk

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    silentlambs,

    :Well here it is folks the response to my wife's letter. i guess i have become more evil between letters. Once again any ideas as to how to answer this type of logic?

    It's easy since there as absolutely NO logic in her letter at all. Sound logic involves making valid assertions with conclusions that necessarily follow from valid assertions.

    : To answer your question on how do I not know, but that what silentlambs is doing is Jehovah’s way of getting things changed, the reason I know it’s not is because Jehovah works through his organization,

    Of course the only "proof" that Jehovah works through "His" organization is that an organization which CLAIMS to be "His Organization" has said so. That's circular reasoning.

    ...changing things from within not through worldly media and people who are bringing reproach on him and his people.

    Since the Society has claimed in print that Noah and his family were examples of an "organization" in the Bible, this assertion also falls. Jehovah didn't use Noah to change anything. Jehovah himself killed the planet. As for not using worldly people to change things, what about all the countries that conquered Israel, including the Babylonians and Romans? That certainly wasn't done from within.

    Bringing "reproach" means to discredit, to rebuke. Since you told the truth and the media printed the truth, she is right: the society's policies HAVE been discredited. Dubs use the word "reproach" as if it is some sort of a horrible sin to discredit their God (the Watchtower Corporation) even when it deserves to be discredited.

    : Talk about an ostrich with its head in the sand. You are following an imperfect rebellious man, not Jesus Christ our leader and exempler.

    Of course, that is the pot-calling-the-kettle-black syndrome, since she bases nearly every decision in her life on imperfect rebellious men in Brooklyn, who CLAIM to speak for Jesus.

    : You’ve chosen to focus on one issue and disregard the most important issue, the sanctifying and vindication of Jehovah’s name and getting the good news preached before the end.

    This single sentence is so loaded with logical fallacies that it's hard to believe. First, the "most important" Christian commandments are to love God and love your neighbor. Jesus said so. There is no command to Christians that the "vindication" of Jehovah's name needs to be done by humans at all, let alone be the "most important" issue. Nowhere does it say that preaching the good news is "the most important issue," either. It said it would be preached, that's all.

    But the saddest part of her statement is both a red herring and an ad hominem. She is literally implying that it is WRONG to bring up the serious injustices because of the society's stances on child abuse, because it is not the "most important" issue. Using that "logic" reporting a murder is not the "most important" issue, either, and you would be wrong to do that, too. The ad hominem is that somehow you are wrong, indecent, whatever for daring to do what you did. In short, there is something wrong with YOU.

    : I’ve mentioned this more than once and when you answer you always ignore it.

    Repeating logical fallacies a million times doesn't change the fact that they are logical fallacies.

    : Ya’ll are actively influencing others to turn against Jehovah’s Organization causing some to lose faith like the sisters husband I told you about in my last letter.

    Another ad hominem. YOU are wrong for stepping forward with the truth because it might bring damage to a religious printing corporation. No concern for the thousands of individual child victims, no concern for justice against the wicked adults who did such things, and no concern for the religious printing corporation who permitted such things to happen. Simply, YOU are wrong because the corporation now has to face the music. That is very sad.

    : His blood will be on silentlambs head.

    Ask her to show you ANYONE in the Bible where Jehovah put bloodguilt on the head of someone who told the truth. Jehovah is a God of Truth, not of lies.

    : What do you call people who cause others to doubt and turn away form Jehovah and his organization??

    Honest people who expose religious tyranny.

    : You cannot stop all children from being abused just as no one can stop incest, physical abuse, etc…

    You cannot stop murder, either, so why bother to report it to authorities? There is NO logic in that statement. It is an EXCUSE.

    : It happens outside and in Jehovah’s Organization from those not truly applying his standards.

    Yep. So what's the point here?

    : Jehovah will judge them and bring them to justice.

    Once again, this argument if carried to a logical conclusion is that everything that is done wrong in the congregation should be left to Jehovah to sort out, and that humans shouldn't involve themselves. Yet, a teen-ager caught smoking a single cigarette can have his entire life destroyed and lose his family and life-long friends becuase the hypocritical WTS won't wait for Jehovah to bring him to justice. NO! They rush right in and proceed as judge, jury and executioner. Can't she see the hypocrisy in this? They judge tens of thousands of JWs every year, and pronounce their own punishment, but they want to be EXEMPT from any scrutiny and face any consequences for their own misdeeds. Sanctioning child-rape and letting the rapists go scot free in THOUSANDS of cases is a far worse crime than a teen-ager smoking a cigarette.

    I think I'm beginning to get sick.

    : In the mean time family can turn abusers or those highly suspected in. I know of cases where that was done and the ones who turned the individuals in were not disciplined by the congregation.

    How freaking magnanimous! They DIDN'T PUSISH THE ONE WHO TURNED IN THE CRIMINAL! We'll let's just give those boys a medal for their wonderfulness!

    : How sad that you choose to spend the remaining time in this system working against Jehovah’s Organization. Somewhere along the line under your husbands very subtle but persuasive influence you have lost the immensely good sense and wonderful discernment you had and are like a horse with blinders on that can only see in one direction.

    Ad hominem. Note that NO evidence has been presented, only opinion and accusation.

    : Don’t bother trying to reason with me and I won’t try with you anymore.

    That sums it up perfectly: "I'm not interested in reason (logic). I'm just interested in condemnation and judging and protecting the printing corporation that I worship."

    : My faith is stronger than ever. Part of the prophecy was how there would be those who would turn away from the truth. We’re supposed to meet together and all the more so as we behold the day drawing near. That is scriptural and you know it. Your dad and sister have told me they do not agree with ya’ll and don’t want to talk to you about it. It’s pretty sad when DF persons can see how wrong your course is, but you can’t.

    Another ad hominem.

    : One isolating himself will seek his own selfish longing, in this case-do or die on one issue.

    That perfectly fits those bastards in their ivory towers in Brooklyn, doesn't it?

    : Thanks silentlambs, I’ve lost not only a daughter but one whom I considered my closest friend.

    That's what we call a f***-you. You "took" her daughter away from her. YOU. Why? Because you spoke the truth and exposed a secretive, self-perpetuating religious empire for what it truly is.

    : When I say lost I mean having the very close relationship we had. I will never approve of what you are doing.

    Sorry, mom. But God's approval is all that matters. Your opinions don't make wrongs right.

    Farkel

  • wasasister
    wasasister

    I can't add much to what Farkel has said - his logic is as alway, flawless. However, this will not help MIL, as she has so clearly stated: "Don't reason with me." Fine then, don't.

    About the only response to this kind of thing is to simply state:

    "Mother, I love you as I always have and hope we can keep the lines of communication open. I have not been deceived or influenced by my husband, I completely agree with and support his effors on behalf of victims of abuse. I would never act against Jehovah, but if His organization has flaws resulting in terrible harm to even one Witness child, how can we turn away? Which would make Satan's heart rejoice, Mother? Allowing monsters who commit these acts to hide safely within congregations of inncocent JW children, perhaps even achieving status of Ministerial Servant or Elder whereby they are trusted? Or finding a way to change outdated policies of secrecy which have fostered this unhealthy environment? If even one little child is protected because of Silentlambs effors, who rejoices? Jehovah or Satan? I won't try to convince you to change your opinion, but remember we love you and respect your beliefs. Please continue to do the same for us."

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