"Meaning" (for donkey's never-ending ...

Blueblades

DONKEY,"Meaning" is the most stirring of all spiritual impulses.(HELMUT THIELICKE.)What is "meaning"?Why do we want it?.How do we get it?Is it an actual quality in reality to be discerned or something we project upon that realty from within,or only a never-to-be-fulfilled longing of the human heart?Whatever it is, it offers one of the most powerful reasons for continuing the human experiment.Its possibility is, simply,a reason to live---its absence,a reason to give up living.Our appetite for meaning is insatiable, our anxiety over its elusiveness never ending. The response to this fundamental human desire is as varied as are human beings themselves.People reach out for meaning in an endless number of ways,often mistaking the diversions of life for meaning itself.The problem of meaning is tied directly to that of transience.We haven't much time to figure things out. We are keenly aware of the brevity of life.KIERKEGAARD wrote,"The thing is to understand myself,to see what God wishes me to do;the thing is to find a truth which is true to me,to find the idea for which I can live and die."To find an idea , a cause, a purpose around which I can construct a life, to realize that such a purpose also allows one to come to terms with the end of life.Where does one find such an idea?(to be continued) Blueblades

SixofNine

*coughbullshitcough*

Undecided

A very good thought:

The thing is to understand myself,to see what God wishes me to do;the thing is to find a truth which is true to me,to find the idea for which I can live and die."To find an idea , a cause, a purpose around which I can construct a life, to realize that such a purpose also allows one to come to terms with the end of life.Where does one find such an idea?

The problem is that people like the Muslems find this cause and it is to kill all the wicked people like us who don't subcribe to their god. This living for some other power and giving our life and others for this purpose is not good. There is no answer that will suit everyone's need for a future life, at least it hasn't been found by me.

Ken P.

xenawarrior

*hands Six a glass of water*

XW

donkey

Blueblades,

Thanks for the thread - much appreciated.

So we are discussing "meaning"? What does this mean? Ok - thats a joke.... or is it? If I were to reconstruct the sentence to say "What does THIS mean?" then you could logicall ask what do I mean when I use the word THIS?

The context is required to add meaning to the sentence. Also, there are some base assumptions ie, that one would understand the context and the implications of the context? The study of meaning has been a fascinating subject for both philosphers, linguists and scientists. Each of the respective fields has there own slant on "meaning" as well as their proponents and theories. For example: Richards coined "The Meaning of Meaning" theory. He basically postulates that meanings don't reside in words (although each word has a dictionary definition to explain it's meaning) but rather that meanings reside IN people. Richards happened to be focusing on the study of Communication when he put together his theory. He focused on understanding rather than persuasion. Rather like focusing on a listener and how a listener listens vs focusing on a speaker and what the speaker is saying.

So for now let's go with the defintion Richards used as it is a good one IMHO.

One of the ideas behind the Meaning of Meaning Theory is "The Proper Meaning Superstition." This is the false belief that every word has an exact, "correct" meaning. Richards says that the Proper Meaning Superstition is false because words mean different things to different people in different situations.

This misunderstanding can cause problems when two people think that they are talking about the same thing, but really they are not. A clear example of this is the Abortion issue. Proponets on each side of the issue are generally talking about two different things and therefore they can never reach UNDERSTANDING or consensus (by the way don't ask me how to fix that situation either - Donkey's aren't that smart).

So meaning depends on understanding and I would add that understanding together with context enable each of us to construct meaning in our lives. We interperet (understand) events based upon what we know (context) for ourselves. For instance as a Golfer I might see storm clouds and be truly upset that I cannot finish my round. But a farmer seeing the same storm clouds might be overjoyed because his crops will receive much needed water.

Having established this (rather long winded I know) I can finally get around to my original question: what do you mean? Are you attempting to point out that atheists lack meaning in their lives? Or are you attempting to question how living things can interperet meaning if they evolved from a primordial soup?

I enjoyed this ASSignment so far....thanks

Edited by - donkey on 1 December 2002 12:45:59

blondie

I always felt it odd to find meaning or purpose apart from the rest of life. We live amongst thousands of people who impact on our life everyday. Animal and plant life are a part of our life even down to the molecular level.

That's why it is so difficult to find harmony, assuming we even have the knowledge or understanding to do so. So I take what I know and understand now and go for it. I try to learn more, hopefully not through sad experience.

Many of the comments here have helped me see other points of view that I have used.

Life can be a wonderful thing even under bad circumstances. That is why most people cling to life.

Many here as ex-JWs are deconstructing life while building a new one. That's not easy. Ask any house contractor whether it is easier to build new or remodel.

Well, that felt like Philosophy 101.

Blondie

Some favorite quotes

Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. Will Rogers

Never, Never, Never Quit. Winston Churchill

Action may not always bring happiness; but there is no happiness without action. Benjamin Disraeli

Life is what happens to you while you are making other plans.
A.J. Marshall

Blueblades

Where does one find such an idea?Many have found it in God.(I must admit after spending over 30 yrs. inside the WT.Society I have to rethink this through)And its sites like this one that are helping me to do so.What would be the use of discovering so-called objective truth, of working through all the systems of philosophy,what good would it do me to be able to explain the meaning of God or Christianity if it has no deeper significance for me and for my life.We are each working out our own lives by our best lights, and that which does not exist in my own life does not ,for me at least , does not exist at all.It is not simply the clinical reasoning or the fluctuating tide of my emotions that I must rely on.I must join with others in making my life meaningful.To do so means that I must get invovled,take risks be commited.No one can predict where this might take me or you.There is no prescription for what this kind of life must look like.It will of necessity find different people doing greatly different things.And in doing so will entangle us with others whose commitments are different and from those who recent any commitment at all.And then there is ones own inner resistence which requires that we hold tightly to the values of the struggle while holding loosely to the conclusions we draw while in the midst of the struggle to find "meaning ". Blueblades

Blueblades

DONKEY ,Thanks for your responses.I am open-minded to your posts and have cause to think through what you write .What I was meaning to ask was does what you learn and what I learn give our lives meaning in other words what is the reason for our existence.Is just to exist for a life that is so transience making no difference what we do with it then die .Having no meaning,no purpose to it ,,just existence through the evolution process then your gone.Is that what you have concluded or am I misunderstanding you?Blueblades

Granny Linda

I've known a few Atheist's and they were just as happy living in the moment...that was their purpose. It gave their life meaning. They just didn't bother themselves with concepts of after life because they didn't need that type of faith to give meaning and purpose to what was in front of them.

There I go again thinking I can get into conversation about things that I'm not neccesarily qualified to speak of. But, hey...do keep this going you two. It's been fun.

granny

Iwasyoungonce

The problem is that people like the Muslems find this cause and it is to kill all the wicked people like us who don't subcribe to their god. This living for some other power and giving our life and others for this purpose is not good. There is no answer that will suit everyone's need for a future life, at least it hasn't been found by me.

Ken P.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Islam, Judaism, Christianity all share more than the story of Abraham. They all see everything from their perceptions of what is right and what is wrong, what is good and what is bad. Only the hurt that was inflicted upon them by others matters. They all believe that they are oppressed while ignoring the oppression that they themselves are doing.

I like to walk amongst the religions. My faith is mine. I can share with you my faith but I will never submit to a man who wishes to take my faith which flows freely from me and make me submit to an earthly license that permits him to sell me back my faith like a bottle of water. I really do see dogma as synthetic faith. Faith in a bottle. I would rather be around a pagan with real faith any day or an atheist who has existential faith than any religious zealot who is incapable of thinking or dreaming for themselves.

"Meaning" (for donkey's never-ending ...

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